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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
 Posted - 02/17/2017 : 10:06:59 AM
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| So earlier this week, we had a 2007 EPA Maxxforce DT that had big problems. Bent push rod, valve stuck in head, and more than likely some lower end damage as well. Navistar is saying we can not get a reman that it has to be rebuilt. I've seen on this forum about swapping a Maxxforce 7 for a Cummins, but is it being done with the DTs also? It would seem to make sense to do it this way because as everyone knows, DTs are problematic and the bus will be in service for another 10-15 years. Any input would be great. Thanks! |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2017 : 11:23:51 AM
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Contact your area Cummins dealer.
Offer to repower 07 emission Maxxforce 7 equipped buses is only through the end of 2017. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 02/17/2017 11:24:30 AM |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2017 : 05:21:21 AM
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| I got a quote from International for a repower from a Maxx7 to a Cummins and they can do it for a mere $37K. I called Cummins and asked them about it and they told me they never heard of such a thing. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2017 : 09:07:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
I got a quote from International for a repower from a Maxx7 to a Cummins and they can do it for a mere $37K. I called Cummins and asked them about it and they told me they never heard of such a thing.
What hadn't Cummins ever heard of? Repowering from a DT? From a MaxxForce 7?
Our Cummins dealer repowered our MaxxForce 7 bus for under $30k |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2017 : 09:21:48 AM
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| Yeah they had no clue what I was talking about. I even told him it talked about it on their website. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2017 : 09:39:17 AM
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| Last I heard our Cummins dealer had about 300 repowers on the waiting list and one or two techs devoted to doing nothing else. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2017 : 07:23:04 AM
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| Cummins rep was in the other day and he had info on the Maxxforce7 and VT365 swap, but had nothing on the DT swap. So we'll see what he can drum up for us and hopefully get an answer soon. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2017 : 07:44:06 AM
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| I'm curious to see what price Cummins can do it for you. I think $37K is pretty steep from International. |
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woodster
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2017 : 10:21:20 AM
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| we are doing the repowers for vt 365 we have done 8 buses already the kit comes with everthing |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2017 : 1:20:28 PM
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What he said! /\ |
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drp53188
Senior Member
89 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2017 : 10:22:12 AM
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| DTs are problematic ??? MAX 7 yes but not a DT. |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
800 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2017 : 1:35:25 PM
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| I called cummins about a repower . They called me back thinking I had a VT 365 . I said no a DT 466 . He told me there is no repower for a FE bus and no repower for the DT 466 . Then he said why was because the DT466 is supposed to be a good engine . |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2017 : 11:48:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by valleybusman
I called cummins about a repower . They called me back thinking I had a VT 365 . I said no a DT 466 . He told me there is no repower for a FE bus and no repower for the DT 466 . Then he said why was because the DT466 is supposed to be a good engine .
The DT466 is a great motor, however if you are talking a model year 2007 MaxxForce DT, that motor proper name is a MaxxForce DT, 9 or 10. A true DT 466 is all blue motor. 2007-2009 are all black, black valve cover? 2010-Present are black with aluminum valve covers? 2007 and up are referred to as MaxxForce DT 9 or 10 even though the data plate will say MaxxForce DT. So basically a MaxxForce DT, 9 and 10 are the same motor, EGR, different color engine and valve covers, either black or aluminum.
DT466 was ended at the end of 2006. The DT466, MaxxForce DT, 9 and 10 all have the same block.
Confused? Good, now we are all on the same page. hahahaha. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
800 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2017 : 11:51:09 AM
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This is a 2005 model
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CISDbusman
Advanced Member
306 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2017 : 04:52:23 AM
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This whole thread makes my brain hurt. Spend 30k+ on a repower?? Sounds like a waste of the tax payers money!! Fix the one thats in it for 5-10k and drive the wheels off of it. Or put that 30k toward a new bus........
I have a verrrrry small budget and watch every penny of it!! Guess those with a 300+ bus fleet will never miss the money. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2017 : 05:16:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CISDbusman
This whole thread makes my brain hurt. Spend 30k+ on a repower?? Sounds like a waste of the tax payers money!! Fix the one thats in it for 5-10k and drive the wheels off of it. Or put that 30k toward a new bus........
I have a verrrrry small budget and watch every penny of it!! Guess those with a 300+ bus fleet will never miss the money.
I'm with you, you can fix it 5 more times for the price of a repower. I know you guys will say "who wants to fix it 5 times". I'd take my chances on going the cheap way out, you may luck out and never have to fix it again, so far I've had good luck on the last Maxx7 we fixed going the cheap route ($5400). I was quoted 37K for a repower from International. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2017 : 05:19:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CISDbusman
This whole thread makes my brain hurt. Spend 30k+ on a repower?? Sounds like a waste of the tax payers money!! Fix the one thats in it for 5-10k and drive the wheels off of it. Or put that 30k toward a new bus........
I have a verrrrry small budget and watch every penny of it!! Guess those with a 300+ bus fleet will never miss the money.
I have a 15 bus fleet and in our case it was either a reman MaxxForce 7 with barely any warranty for $20,000 and stick with no confidence, no resale value and 7.5 mpg. Or for under $30k get a new Cummins with new after-treatment, 5 year 100k warranty, confidence, resale value and 9 mpg.
Another factor for us was that that the 2007 emission Cummins is pretty much problem free in comparison to our 2010 emission Cummins that use DEF. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2017 : 12:54:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
quote:
Originally posted by CISDbusman
This whole thread makes my brain hurt. Spend 30k+ on a repower?? Sounds like a waste of the tax payers money!! Fix the one thats in it for 5-10k and drive the wheels off of it. Or put that 30k toward a new bus........
I have a verrrrry small budget and watch every penny of it!! Guess those with a 300+ bus fleet will never miss the money.
I'm with you, you can fix it 5 more times for the price of a repower. I know you guys will say "who wants to fix it 5 times". I'd take my chances on going the cheap way out, you may luck out and never have to fix it again, so far I've had good luck on the last Maxx7 we fixed going the cheap route ($5400). I was quoted 37K for a repower from International.
We replaced 8 of our VT365's with Reman 365's two years ago but we wanted to scrap the buses and buy new one, that option was voted down. We are now into the "Fix it again phase" 1 oil cooler, 2 fuel pumps, 3 EGR coolers, 2 turbochargers, and 3 injectors. These are not all on the same bus. Money wise so far, this has been cheaper, however we plan to have the bus another 10 years. So which way would have been cheaper?
One factor to consider is down time, how long does it take from fault to finish to fix the bus again? For me and EGR cooler or turbo is about a full week to 10 days. Identify the fault, get price quotes, turn in a Purchase request, (PR) wait for PR number, order the parts, go get the parts, install the pasts, verify it's fixed, return the core.
My budget is low and I'm a one technician shop with a helper so all the other stuff still has to get done. My cost doing and egr cooler on a 365 is about $550. The price is a little higher because I buy from bullet proof diesel. That's the cooler, and intake gasket set. To have it sent out is $1822, parts and labor. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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woodster
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2017 : 09:04:43 AM
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| I have 350 buses at my facility,and several different types.average age of fleet 18 yrs. old and every bus is retro fitted with a/c that is about 12 yrs old now and also newer buses with factory. It is a constant battle keeping these vts and maxxforce running.Which in turn has put a load on use with all other repairs The cummins repower is about $27,000 but in my opinion worth every penny. I have 2 of my techs doing all the repowers have done 5 vts and one maxxforce and about the same at our other facility.We can send these buses out of town with out worrying if it will make it to its destination |
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Rhale
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2017 : 08:26:49 AM
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Has anyone had a RE done? I have 6 of these units and have spent nearly $100,000 in out of warranty repairs, the swap sounds good to me
if available for the RE's. Any info or direction would be greatly appreciated |
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Tantalus
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2019 : 4:08:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
we are doing the repowers for vt 365 we have done 8 buses already the kit comes with everthing
Hello, I am looking for somebody that has actually done this conversion or has purchased the kit. If you fit into this category would you be willing to talk to me? |
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forbushd
Active Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2019 : 05:17:45 AM
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| We had a 2011 CE with a DT in it that needed rebuilt. Dealer told us it would be too much of a hassle because a new Cummins requires the DEF tank and SCR system installed. Not to mention new exhaust throughout, and probably an adapter for the engine mounts. (Maybe an adapter for the transmission too, but I don't know about that.) We just had the thing rebuilt. |
Before I started working here, I drank, smoked, and used foul language for no reason at all. But, thanks to my job, I now have a reason. |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2019 : 05:35:14 AM
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| As far as the DTs, you can make them more reliable by utilizing the forced lube kit which has updated rockers, push tubes, and double dog bones. A reman DT runs about 15K through our dealer. Our dealer won't even rebuild them anymore because of cost. In our case, a Cummins swap is not cost efficient. If we had the MF7, it may be a different story. |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2019 : 06:54:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by aaronwilmoth80911
As far as the DTs, you can make them more reliable by utilizing the forced lube kit which has updated rockers, push tubes, and double dog bones. A reman DT runs about 15K through our dealer. Our dealer won't even rebuild them anymore because of cost. In our case, a Cummins swap is not cost efficient. If we had the MF7, it may be a different story.
We are currently in the process of bids going out for cummins repowers on 4 VT365's. Our dealers told us that there is no repower currently available for MaxxFarce 7's. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2019 : 09:04:24 AM
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| That's odd, I thought the MF7 was more popular for the Cummins swap. But, I don't have any in my fleet or 365s, so I'm not complaining lol |
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krmvcs
Advanced Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2019 : 1:11:31 PM
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| Im not familiar with those particular rigs but when I asked my CHP inspector about one of my old BBs, they essentially said that they would only sign off on an engine swap if it was on original engine option. Dont know if thats a thing out there but I imagine its doable here in CA as long as you jump through a ton of hoops. At the end of the day though Id rather have a new bus instead of an old one with a new engine. |
-Ken- |
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woodster67
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2019 : 12:42:00 PM
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so how can i help you
quote:
Originally posted by Tantalus
quote:
Originally posted by woodster
we are doing the repowers for vt 365 we have done 8 buses already the kit comes with everthing
Hello, I am looking for somebody that has actually done this conversion or has purchased the kit. If you fit into this category would you be willing to talk to me?
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woodster67
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2019 : 12:45:48 PM
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| Tantalus this is woodster how can i help you.If you like call our shop number is 281-878-7815 and I will try to help you. |
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Tantalus
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2019 : 08:33:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster67
Tantalus this is woodster how can i help you.If you like call our shop number is 281-878-7815 and I will try to help you.
Hello Woodster67, thanks for responding to my post. I tried calling but when I asked for "Woodster67" the person on the phone had no clue what I was talking about.
When you purchase the VT365 to ISB conversion kit do you get a list of new part numbers from Cummins? For example do they give you a part number for the Cummins ECM to International body computer wire harness?
If any of the bus conversions had an Allison automatic, did you have to do anything to the transmissions?
Did you need to change the rear differential gearing to accommodate for the RPM differences between the VT365 and the ISB?
What Cummins dealer did you purchase your conversion kits through, and were they helpful?
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. If you would rather give me a call you can reach me at five-zero-three, four-seven-six, two-two-seven-two.
Thanks Tim/Tantalus |
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woodster67
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2019 : 07:58:59 AM
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| Tim my name is Brett I am the shop foreman the number i gave you is my office number. you can call me also at 281-986-7566 that is my district cell.We got with our dealership and gave them the vin number to bus and the repower comes with everthing you need, also a USB drive comes in the kit.Also you will want to change out rear motor supports.we had to have the TCM reflashed.Give me a call on my district phone |
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TRex
Senior Member
89 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2019 : 09:21:01 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by aaronwilmoth80911
[forced lube kit which has updated rockers, push tubes, and double dog bones.] ...What is the part 3 for that forced lube kit?
Thanks |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2019 : 2:59:21 PM
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| 7093270C92 is part number for forced lube kit |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2019 : 11:19:17 AM
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| What a headache. Good luck to you all. I'm glad we got out of all of ours. Headed toward all propane. Do we have troubles? Yep, but not that much trouble. I commend you guys that are working with what you hand saving your school money! |
Bryan |
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Topic |
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MaxxForce DT to Cummins
