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Girardin_71
Top Member
Canada
626 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2004 : 7:43:23 PM
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| I was on busexplorer and saw a 1988 Thomas Saf-T-Liner ER with a tandem axle. when did they stop making this an option on the rear engine buses. http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=2004 |
Edited by - Girardin_71 on 06/18/2004 7:43:50 PM
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 8:24:42 PM
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I believe they made the tandem axle Thomas, up until the Mid 1990's. One of my friend's mentioned that Laidlaw in Southern California has a number of these units.
Thomas rebranded these as the West Coast ER if I'm not mistaken... which they used for basically every bus out west. |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 8:37:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Solano
I believe they made the tandem axle Thomas, up until the Mid 1990's. One of my friend's mentioned that Laidlaw in Southern California has a number of these units.
Gee, I wonder who that friend could be.  |
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BusFreak
Top Member
USA
798 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 11:54:29 PM
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OK, so a few questions on that bus if anyone knows the answer:
What was the standard engine in them. Did a heavy duty detroit fit in the rear, like a crown would have?
Where both rear axels drive axels?
Whats the deal with the HUGE space in the middle of the inward opening door? is that a california rule? |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 07:00:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BusFreak
Whats the deal with the HUGE space in the middle of the inward opening door? is that a california rule?
I'll let someone with more expertise with the West CoastERs to answer the other questions, but for this I might share my theory.... I think it may have been to give the door the same appearance as a Crown's single piece door. If you notice, very few buses have that now, but buses made by Thomas in that era and area share the same style (even conventionals). The edges of the glass are rounded on the hinged sides of the door panels while towards the center they are perfectly square, probably to give it a continous appearance if you don't look too closely. |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 1:05:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BusFreak
OK, so a few questions on that bus if anyone knows the answer:
What was the standard engine in them. Did a heavy duty detroit fit in the rear, like a crown would have?
Where both rear axels drive axels?
Whats the deal with the HUGE space in the middle of the inward opening door? is that a california rule?
1. All of the tandem axle Thomas Saf-T-Liner ERs that I've ridden on and seen have had Caterpillar 3208 engines in them.
2. No, it was a tag axle on the Thomas buses.
3. I'm not sure if there was a purpose behind the gap or not, but it seems to've disappeared on the 1991 and newer Thomas buses. Not all California spec'd. Thomas buses have that. |
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CrownBus1
Top Member
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 5:27:06 PM
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| The school district I used to live in (Laidlaw in Southern California) has 8 Thomas tandem ER's. They are 1986/1987 models. I rode on them many times, they were a pretty solid bus, and they're still in OK (not great, just OK) shape too. |
Bus 1
1985 Crown |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 5:47:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue-BirdTC2000
when did they stop making this an option on the rear engine buses.
To somewhat answer the original question, I haven't seen any 1991 or newer Thomas Saf-T-Liner ERs with tandem axles. I'm not sure when, or even if, the spec. became unavailable. |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 8:45:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperiorGMC1963
That wonderful old Thomas RE reminded me of another tandem axle rarity. This is an old Ward ad from late 1976. It's the only picture I have ever seen of a Ward like this. I have no idea who produced the chassis.
And I thought the tandem axle Blue Birds were oddballs! That bus is kind of cool in a unique sort-of way.  |
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BusFreak
Top Member
USA
798 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 11:44:55 PM
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So, Buskid...correct me if I'm wrong, but the only function of a tag axle is for a smoother ride...am I correct? Why would Thomas (and school districts) put all that money into a smoother ride. I know that in Crowns, the tandom axle were both drive axles, and that makes sense. Why would Thomas make this an option.
On a side note that ward is awesome...ive never seen a Ward like that...Thanks for showing the picture. Funny, because I forgot where and when I read this, but I saw something that said "Think Crowns? Think AmTran!" That pretty sums up that statement. Is that a tandom axle FE unit? Thats pretty rare, but I bet functional at the same time! |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 05:44:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buskid
And I thought the tandem axle Blue Birds were oddballs! That bus is kind of cool in a unique sort-of way.
Trina, is this the Blue Bird you were referring to? Yeah, I wonder who they were trying to imitate? Do you know how long Blue Bird offered this? I only saw a picture of it in their 1970 literature. I think it would be great to see a modern tandem axle.
http://www.msnusers.com/SuperiorGMC1963/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=107
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Ted
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Girardin_71
Top Member
Canada
626 Posts |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 06:38:42 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Blue-BirdTC2000
here's a picture form the busexplorer of a 1970's Chevy Blue-Bird Conventional with a tandem axle.
 omg!
That is one big conventional! How did I miss seeing that? Are there any more tandem axle conventionals out there? |
Ted
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 08:32:22 AM
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| Wow! I have never seen any bus with tandem axle. Is it really nesesary on a school bus? I just dont get it. |
Robert B.
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member
USA
1478 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 09:24:30 AM
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These are some great finds! Thanks for sharing That Ward looks pretty nice. Tandem axle buses were not very common in my neck of the woods at all but they are interesting. That Chevy Bluebird was interesting to say the least. How many pax is that thing? LOL!
I too would like to see a modern day tandem axle bus if only for variety. It probably wouldn't make much sense in these days of cost cutting and accepting the lowest bid, but you never know.... |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 10:10:56 AM
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| I found that Blue Bird Chevy conventional tandem on the eastern shore of Maryland one summer. For some reason I always thought it was custom, but with all these other tandem finds, I wouldnt be surprised if it was a special order ?? |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:02:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperiorGMC1963
Trina, is this the Blue Bird you were referring to? Yeah, I wonder who they were trying to imitate? Do you know how long Blue Bird offered this? I only saw a picture of it in their 1970 literature. I think it would be great to see a modern tandem axle.
"MIDSHIP," ha! I love how they called it that.
Anyway, that's the one. What a great color picture of it.
I have some more advertisements showing the bus (in black and white, though, not color like yours), and they only date up to 1970 as well. I'll have to check and see when the ads first started appearing in School Bus Fleet Magazine.
By the way, did you notice in the advertisement you posted a scan of, it says the engine is a "Cummings" instead of Cummins? |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:11:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne
Wow! I have never seen any bus with tandem axle. Is it really nesesary on a school bus? I just dont get it.
When both of the axles are drive axles, it makes a lot of sense. On Crowns, you could have both of the axles moving separately, or, you could "lock" them together for better traction. A lot of school districts in California and other western States purchased tandem axle school buses, although the only ones that I ever thought made total sense were the Crowns since both of the axles were drive axles.
If anything, you have double the stopping power in the rear that you had before with the tandem axle. The buses will stop on a dime!
By the way, my regular route bus in high school was a Crown Tandem Axle Supercoach. I also owned one, and I drove them sporadically during the two years I was a school bus driver in California. I think they're great buses. I just wish I had the chance to drive a tandem axle Thomas ER to compare it to the real deal (I only rode on the tandem axle Thomas ERs). |
Edited by - Buskid on 06/20/2004 11:12:52 AM |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:17:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BusFreak
So, Buskid...correct me if I'm wrong, but the only function of a tag axle is for a smoother ride...am I correct?
Basically. And as I said in my previous post, you also have double the braking power since you have the extra axle. But I agree, I don't think that tag axle was really necessary. I'd like to know what their sales pitch was for that option.
"Think Crowns? Think AmTran!" . . . that's too good. |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 7:48:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jared
I found that Blue Bird Chevy conventional tandem on the eastern shore of Maryland one summer. For some reason I always thought it was custom, but with all these other tandem finds, I wouldnt be surprised if it was a special order ??
That is one amazing bus Jared. I was going to ask about its origin but you already answered that question. I wouldn't be surprised either if it was some kind of special order. Blue Bird has said more than once in the past that they would put a bus body on just about any chassis that was available. |
Ted
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 7:55:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buskid
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By the way, did you notice in the advertisement you posted a scan of, it says the engine is a "Cummings" instead of Cummins?
I didn't notice that until you mentioned it! I guess I'm as bad as Blue Bird's proofreader! Seeing that it's from 1970 someone probably confused 'Cummins' with the actor Robert Cummings. But that's before many of you were born.
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Ted
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gonzosbus
Senior Member
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 8:18:39 PM
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| The extra tag axle had to do with weight distribution. More passengers means more weight. When I was working as a driver at a district here in Phoenix in the late 70's we had a 97 passenger Westcoaster that we were Testing for Thomas. Apparently from what i can remember Thomas was wanting to built more of them and needed the test for Hot weather climates. Like I said the bus had a Tag on it so it wouldnt put all the weight on the single axle. not sure why they dont build buses with tag's anymore.but it was an interesting concept. Thanks, Armando Cuellar, Madison Elem SD #38, Phoenix Az. |
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Mitchell
Top Member
Canada
741 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2004 : 2:13:58 PM
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Hey Ted,are there any more pictures from that 1977 ward brochure?
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2004 : 4:14:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 2000freightlinercorbeil
Hey Ted,are there any more pictures from that 1977 ward brochure?
That pic of the Ward is not from a brochure. It is from an ad in SBF. It's the only pic I have ever seen of that bus. Sorry.
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Ted
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4545 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 2:38:45 PM
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All this talk of old Thomas pushers...I miss all of the ones I've been through.
An 84 passenger conventional(the blue bird above)...I want one! |
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jimqpublic
New Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 10:12:09 AM
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I'm a newbie here but I'll comment on why a tag axle-
Weight capacity! Most 40' and 45' highway coaches and tour busses have them. The rear engine puts a lot of weight on the back end and with an inline engine/transmission the weight is way back there. A tag axle generally has single wheels, not doubles. The driveshaft powers the front (rear) axle. If both rear axles were driven, the engine and transmission might have to be moved farther back(?)
For a front engine school bus though why? It seems that exceeding a 23,000 pound rated rear axle would be hard unless there was an extreme rear overhang and lots of rather heavy students.
Jim |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 10:16:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jimqpublic
I'm a newbie here but I'll comment on why a tag axle-
Weight capacity! Most 40' and 45' highway coaches and tour busses have them. The rear engine puts a lot of weight on the back end and with an inline engine/transmission the weight is way back there. A tag axle generally has single wheels, not doubles. The driveshaft powers the front (rear) axle. If both rear axles were driven, the engine and transmission might have to be moved farther back(?)
For a front engine school bus though why? It seems that exceeding a 23,000 pound rated rear axle would be hard unless there was an extreme rear overhang and lots of rather heavy students.
Jim
Many Type A commercial buses ( based on ford or GM van cutaway chassis ) are offered with tag axles. Wouldnt it be to just beef up the gvwr of the chassis? |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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Topic |
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How long did Thomas have this an option on RE Bus
