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 Usage of #1 diesel in emissions buses
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forbushd
Active Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2020 :  05:07:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our district is in Eastern Idaho where we have a lot of snow and cold temperatures. For the past couple years, we've had numerous issues with most of our newer buses (2012 model year and up) in cold weather. It's a small fleet. 5 of these buses are IC with MaxxForce DT and 5 are Bluebird with Cummins. The Cummins have had the worst luck, and I think it comes down to a fuel blend.

We contract with our county to get red dyed diesel from them. For winterization, they blend 70% #2 and 30% #1. I've read that it can cause problems to run any amount of #1 diesel in new emissions engines. It's no problem for them, but they run off-road equipment. Is this true? Should we instead be using 100% #2 with a concoction of anti-gel additive instead? From our drivers with Cummins in them, I've had a couple complaints about the high exhaust temp light constantly coming on, and we just had to send a DPF to Cummins to be cleaned, and I'm wondering if this goes back to #1 diesel. I don't know the sulfur content of the fuel.

Do any of you know where to find some good information about this?

EDIT: I originally thought that #1 had higher sulfur content, but I guess all modern diesel is ULSD.

Edited by - forbushd on 01/24/2020 09:04:42 AM

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2020 :  05:32:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We run about a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2, I am sure its all ULSD. I don't believe the #1 is a problem as long as its ULSD. I think you need to do whatever you have to do to make sure you are 100% ULSD.
Years ago the dye meant "off road fuel" possibly high sulfur, today dyed fuel only means its non taxed for tax exempt use.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 01/24/2020 05:37:52 AM
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forbushd
Active Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2020 :  08:07:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess I misunderstood the difference between #1 and #2; I was under the impression that #1 wasn't ULSD.

Before I started working here, I drank, smoked, and used foul language for no reason at all. But, thanks to my job, I now have a reason.
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forbushd
Active Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2020 :  10:25:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
UDPATE for anyone interested:

Cummins QuickServe has a procedure about it and some more detailed information:
https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs3/pubsys2/xml/en/procedures/455/455-018-002.html
https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs3/portal/service/manual/en/5411406/

Hope this is helpful to anyone.

Before I started working here, I drank, smoked, and used foul language for no reason at all. But, thanks to my job, I now have a reason.
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iceracer
Active Member

32 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2020 :  6:47:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit iceracer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
here in northern MN, we run strictly #1 fuel, off-road from November through February. we have zero issues with fuel, running both Cummins and Maxxforce 7. With my Birds, I run the 30-micron water/fuel separator, and wrap it with bubblewrap during the extreme cold winter months. Works well!

quote:
Originally posted by forbushd

Our district is in Eastern Idaho where we have a lot of snow and cold temperatures. For the past couple years, we've had numerous issues with most of our newer buses (2012 model year and up) in cold weather. It's a small fleet. 5 of these buses are IC with MaxxForce DT and 5 are Bluebird with Cummins. The Cummins have had the worst luck, and I think it comes down to a fuel blend.

We contract with our county to get red dyed diesel from them. For winterization, they blend 70% #2 and 30% #1. I've read that it can cause problems to run any amount of #1 diesel in new emissions engines. It's no problem for them, but they run off-road equipment. Is this true? Should we instead be using 100% #2 with a concoction of anti-gel additive instead? From our drivers with Cummins in them, I've had a couple complaints about the high exhaust temp light constantly coming on, and we just had to send a DPF to Cummins to be cleaned, and I'm wondering if this goes back to #1 diesel. I don't know the sulfur content of the fuel.

Do any of you know where to find some good information about this?

EDIT: I originally thought that #1 had higher sulfur content, but I guess all modern diesel is ULSD.


Edited by - iceracer on 01/26/2020 6:51:03 PM
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Bluenozer
Top Member

Canada
640 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2020 :  06:30:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What people have to remember is that an IH or Maxxforce engine use high pressure oil to inject fuel so the actual fuel pressure is normally below 100 psi and the return fuel is warm, now with common rail , the fuel itself gets pressure upto 30,000psi and he return fuel is much warmer and hen it gets to a cold tank(with cold fuel) it will condense and cause water to enter fuel , only way to stop is have drivers keep the fuel level above 1/2 a tank for certain, now I can hear people "it doesn't do that with highway trucks" buses go for 1-2 hrs then sit all day then go out for another 1-2 hrs other on-highway vehicles don't stop until they need fuel
That is what we found with the cold weather

OEM trained in wiring and all engine platforms for over 20 years
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