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 2004 IC RE300 DT 466 died on rt won't start
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2019 :  10:03:37 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Wednesday my 2004 IC RE300 with a DT466 died during bus run . Towed it back to the garage and am presently working on it . I checked codes and this is what I got . DTC 113 , 222 , 321 , 325 , 335 , 554 and 626 . I am at a loss with so many codes . I tried to check IPR pressure and it came up with 978 lbs . I am thinking ECM power low ? Any ideas ? When I try to start bus it does sound funny Thanks

peter2019
Senior Member

125 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2019 :  8:09:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit peter2019's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Does the engine crank? there was only code DTC335- ICP unable to build pressure during crank cause your bus doesnot start, are you sure you check ICP pressure came up to 978 PSI, how you get that? by computer? you should get fault IPR or HPOP problem, there is problem with your high pressure oil system.
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2019 :  09:08:53 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Saturday I went out and tried to start bus . Would get a few times it would try to start . Right now I am thinking lift pump ? The reason is because after I pulled the fuel filter . I turned the engine over and the I didn't have the filter housing build up with fuel .I have never lost a lift pump on a DT 466 engine . All my codes show inactive . Could I be on to something here . The few times it wanted to start I had the pedal floored to get that .Thanks
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peter2019
Senior Member

125 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2019 :  7:26:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit peter2019's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You need fuel pressure gauge to check, it should be around 65PSI, before you get the number, donot touch fuel pump,you said you use to get code DTC335, how did you get ICP pressure 978PSI, if you didnot get ICP, your problem most likely is IPR fault.
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2019 :  07:05:46 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I used my program from navistar for diagnostics .It showed I have about 1200 psi at IPR while cranking . All the codes I had were inactive .ICP showed pressure . I checked compression because as the engine turns over sounds like it has only couple cylinders it's hitting on
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2019 :  11:44:13 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Any other ideas ? anyone ?
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2019 :  1:13:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like what was mentioned above. You need fuel pressure. With 978 or 1200 psi icp that side of things is good. With what you say,"it sounds like a couple of cylinders it's hitting on". It sounds like it's trying to start but isn't getting fuel.

US Army retired CMBT
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2019 :  9:43:36 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Peter and Ron thanks for your input . I am thinking lift pump because I have oil coming out of the HPOP . Also when I crank I feel a couple cylinders trying to start . I have replaced the fuel filter and tried priming . I have also left the filter cap off and no build while cranking . level stays the same . Make sense ?
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2019 :  03:47:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by valleybusman

Peter and Ron thanks for your input . I am thinking lift pump because I have oil coming out of the HPOP . Also when I crank I feel a couple cylinders trying to start . I have replaced the fuel filter and tried priming . I have also left the filter cap off and no build while cranking . level stays the same . Make sense ?



Leaving the filter cap off may not be a true indication whether you getting fuel or not. Some engines have a shut off valve in the filter head that only opens when the cap presses the filter down. For example the VT365. I replaced all kinds of wrong stuff before I learned that.

US Army retired CMBT
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peter2019
Senior Member

125 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2019 :  04:43:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit peter2019's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's no good idea but you can try couple times in your life, does it start with ether?
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2019 :  11:03:20 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I haven't tried either . I just know when I try to start it sounds like it's only hitting on a couple cylinders . That's why if I hold the throttle down it will try and start but die after I release the key and throttle . I also know if I prime the system with the primer pump it acts like it wants to start .
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eddo
Advanced Member

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2019 :  11:34:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
113 & 626 codes sepak of ECM power. Have you verified ECM fuses and connections? Battery connections?

321 & 325 At high Coolant temp codes. Did this engine get hot before it quit on route??

335 is ICP pressure- but you said that was 978. I'd probably double check this.

Did this bus run out of fuel when it died? Did the driver give you any hints about what was going on when it stalled?
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2019 :  09:17:30 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I checked power and fuses . All had 12 volts or more and none were blown . I asked driver last time fueling she said it had only been a few days and my boss said bus has a 100 gallon tank .She said no lights came on and it was running cool .
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Gearbox
Senior Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2019 :  5:32:12 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Gearbox's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Valley Busman, email me so I can send you my phone #. maybe I can help you over the phone, have some questions specific to the bus problem.
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671Fan
Active Member

47 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2019 :  10:07:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit 671Fan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Our RE buses with the 530E have the same sounding symptoms except the codes when the cam position sensor fails.
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twister
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2019 :  10:43:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm scratching my head thinking, but i remember having one do something similar. It ended up being the fuel pressure regulator, it had came apart. The regulator is mounted on the back left of the head, with a fuel return line attached.
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peter2019
Senior Member

125 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2019 :  7:41:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit peter2019's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Twister, since I remember, DT466 fuel pressure regulator should locate inside fuel filter housing, just below fuel filter.
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twister
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  2:13:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe it was a check valve? I’m getting old and forgetful, but what I replaced was the last in line before the return line.
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2019 :  07:23:37 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Got it figured out and bus is running . I replaced the lift pump . Before I replaced it I ran the engine over and felt the suction side of the lift pump by placing my finger over the port . Very poor suction .Bus ran PM route with no problems .Thanks everyone for the help !!!!
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2019 :  8:40:20 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Okay I am back to the drawing board . Came to work and no bus . Boss said driver took it out for AM run . While driver was driving her route her bus died . Wouldn't restart . Took some ether got bus running Drove to turn bus around and it died . Used ether again got bus running but throttle . I went to get a chain and a bus . When I got back my helper got the bus running by playing with the throttle wire Drove bu about a 1/4 mile it died and we couldn't restart . It acted like no fuel . Yesterday driver used the bus on her PM route without a hiccup .
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
148 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2019 :  8:01:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a few basics with the DT466EGR engine..

It is a return less fuel system (fuel does not return to the fuel tank). There is no lift pump odn a DT466EGR. It has a fuel pump that pulls fuel from the fuel tank then thru the fuel water separator / strainer in the bottom of filter housing. Fuel then goes thru the primer pump and to the fuel pump. Fuel under pressure is then sent into the filter housing and then into the intake manifold on its way to the cylinder head. Then the fuel travels to the injectors. If fuel pressure is excessive it will exit thru the fuel pressure regulator and back into the water separator.

Keys to this fuel system is a clean filter. IC buses are notorious for having crap in the fuel tanks. Be sure to inspect your fuel filter as well as the strainer in the bottom. Always check fuel pressure before you change your filter. below 55 psi then suspect a weak pressure regulator. Change it as well as the filter. If pressure is above 70 psi'ish then look at combustion gases getting into the fuel system. Look for fuel leaks in the fuel hand primer (seen this too many times), inspect fuel lines all the way to the fuel tank and do not overlook a pick-up tube issue. Look for debris (rags, bags ect) in the fuel tank. (had this happen recently by the Cummins shop). Test the injectors for leaks in the oil (dye in the fuel with UV light). This should clear most if not all fuel issues.

When you go out on a service call take your lap top and look at the codes when the bus will not start. Make sure you have oil pressure, ICP desired and ICP are where they need to be. Look at cranking speed need a minimun of 450-ish RPM's. Do you hear the injectors "buzz" when you turn on the ignition? If the engine cranks the the ECM is powering and the IDM should be powered but then again it might not. That is a little longer to test.

Knowing what the DTC's is key. There is a "cheat Sheet" for DTC's on the 04 DT466EGR that you can google and put on your phone or computer. It can be a great tool to help you out.

Check all engine related Fuses. Do not forget the IDM logic power fuse as well. (should be in the fuse panel on the CE and RE buses and in the harness on top of the engine on the FE's)

As for the codes for cooling issues, The 04 engine is notorious for having broken thermostats. The can break and keep the engine cool or stick and cause a over heating issue. (Never had a bad ECT sensor).

Lastly. GET RID OF THE ETHER! you don't need it....

Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine
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WrenchMonkeyCSISD
Active Member

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2019 :  04:39:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also you might want to take a look at the fuel return check valve, they're known to come apart and not allow fuel pressure to build. It's pretty easy to spot after pulling the fuel filter, just look for a silver ball in the bottom of the cup.
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g0ttadrift
Advanced Member

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2019 :  3:01:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I spent last week dealing with a similar issue with one of our Maxxforce DT's. I had a code for ECM not getting power and in turn was shorting out all injectors. I traced wires and finally came to a bad ECM relay. It's a sealed 5 pin relay with purple wires going to it. There's two, but one is for the ECM. Also, check ECM fuses at battery connections. Hope this helps.
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