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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2019 : 05:02:41 AM
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| They think they have trouble getting drivers now........... |
Bryan |
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wwinters
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2019 : 06:02:35 AM
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I will have to say that the districts I have spoken with who have seatbelts say it has improved behavior on their buses making it easier for drivers. I still have mixed opinion but when it happens I would like for the legislators to have information needed before a law is passed. There is a lot of pieces to it other than just inking it into law...
Once again THANK YOU to everyone for the positive discussion on seatbelts |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2019 : 07:05:42 AM
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| My point, on having trouble getting drivers, is that when people find out that they will be responsible for making sure kids are in seat belts and if not they will have to go to court to explain why they didn't make sure that mouthy 15 year old kid wasn't in a belt, they will just go to work at Wal-Mart. |
Bryan |
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krmvcs
Advanced Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2019 : 07:15:25 AM
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| The overwhelming majority of students that ride my buses do not wear their belts. CA law is clear that it isnt the drivers responsibility to enforce riders wearing them. They are covered because I have my drivers announce the regulation over the intercom and that is recorded on the camera system. |
-Ken- |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2019 : 10:22:54 AM
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| I have a couple buses with the new style seats that Blue Bird has out. Two of those seats are equipped with the seat belts for pre-k children. There are 4 seat belts (two on each seat) which have 8 retractors. Of those 8 I have replaced 6. All under warranty, but I'm wondering how much trouble people are having that have seat belts in every seat. |
Bryan |
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willism
Advanced Member
United States
250 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2019 : 10:51:50 AM
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| Id like to know that to. We just started on the 2011 and newer IC buses replacing the whole seat back with the immi 2 3point/2 integrated car seat backs which are alot easier to change than I thought they would be just costly. |
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GCISD_trans
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2019 : 07:28:24 AM
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Pros:
1) Seat belts save lives during a roll over (proven fact).
Cons:
1) Seat belts are an added expense to vehicles.
2) You can mandate wear but it will be difficult, at best.
3) Not all seat belts are designed the same and it may take new riders time to adjust to the operation.
4) Parents aren't going to accept their child chose not to wear the belt, it's the drivers fault.
5) Most people don't understand the dangers associated with the physics of a catastrophic crash in a school bus (never happened to me before).
6) Seat belts restrict egress in emergency cases.
7) Retrofitting school buses for seat belts would require re-engineering in the case of older buses. This would take not only financing, but time for engineers to design and test.
8) Buses used for K-12 transportation simultaneously would have to be fitted with different belts for different riders. Three-per-seat may not work with larger riders and rather than try to figure out how to make 3 seat belts fit 2 riders, they simply will not try to wear them.
9) Duration of routes will be longer because some riders will get on with 3 bags, a tuba case, and their lunch box, and they just don't have that extra hand to fasten that seat belt. This means the driver will have to unbuckle and resolve the situation. (Yes, you can mandate what can be transported, but then the delay will be arguing with the parent that the tuba takes a seat by itself and the bus is already crowded.)
And I'm a proponent of wearing seat belts.
Perhaps we should look at ways to keep buses from rolling over and ejecting riders instead of trying to make the bus and "E-ticket" ride. Most roll-overs are due to lack of concentration on the driver's part. Granted there are some side impact situations where the bus rolls over, but if you are the rider belted in where the impact is, now it's a detriment to getting out of the way. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2019 : 09:22:31 AM
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| How about we look into as you say "keep..... from.... ejecting riders". I have been talking about laminated student windows. With this no one has to make sure kids are belted in, no one has to make sure the retractors are working, no one has to worry about "egress". The cost should be less than a bus full of belts, buckles and retractors. I assume there's some lobby representing seat belt manufacturers who are pushing this. There is not lobby for laminated windows, but maybe there should be. |
Bryan |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2019 : 11:10:29 AM
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"8) Buses used for K-12 transportation simultaneously would have to be fitted with different belts for different riders. Three-per-seat may not work with larger riders and rather than try to figure out how to make 3 seat belts fit 2 riders, they simply will not try to wear them."
Our newest buses are seatbelt equipped in the first tow rows of seats. They are easily hooked up no matter if there are three passengers in the seat or just two. The C2 in my shop now has color coded belts and buckles to identify which ones to use for two per seat or three per seat. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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busrench
Active Member
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2019 : 03:55:35 AM
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| Regarding having some students buckled up and some not, the NHTSA states; "Dynamic testing has proven that an unsecured student during an impact may cause harm to the student who is secured in the seat directly in front of such a student." That's why we have a policy of all students are buckled up or none are. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2019 : 07:31:43 AM
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| School bus seats with belts have extra reinforcement because they may be subjected to the load of the buckled kids sitting in the seat plus the load of unbuckled occupants in the seat behind them. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 03/15/2019 08:56:15 AM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2019 : 07:44:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by busrench
Regarding having some students buckled up and some not, the NHTSA states; "Dynamic testing has proven that an unsecured student during an impact may cause harm to the student who is secured in the seat directly in front of such a student." That's why we have a policy of all students are buckled up or none are.
WOW, I've never seen this. Scary |
Bryan |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2019 : 09:48:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by busrench
Regarding having some students buckled up and some not, the NHTSA states; "Dynamic testing has proven that an unsecured student during an impact may cause harm to the student who is secured in the seat directly in front of such a student." That's why we have a policy of all students are buckled up or none are.
WOW, I've never seen this. Scary
https://www.safeguardseat.com/tag/crash-test/ |
US Army retired CMBT |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2019 : 10:39:34 AM
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| Interesting video! |
Bryan |
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WrenchMonkeyCSISD
Active Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 05:51:46 AM
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What a lot of people don't understand is that seatbelts alone are a passive system. There are always going to be hang-ups with them. Until there is a system that would either:
a.) allow the driver to have some means of a buckle override
b.) was automatic in particular situation.
Even then though, it's still going to be a matter of getting each student to buckle up. I still think that statistically speaking loading and unloading are still the most dangerous times, so the focus should be on that. But, I digress... |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 06:11:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by WrenchMonkeyCSISD
What a lot of people don't understand is that seatbelts alone are a passive system. There are always going to be hang-ups with them. Until there is a system that would either:
a.) allow the driver to have some means of a buckle override
b.) was automatic in particular situation.
Even then though, it's still going to be a matter of getting each student to buckle up. I still think that statistically speaking loading and unloading are still the most dangerous times, so the focus should be on that. But, I digress...
You are correct! The bad thing is that you can't convince the general public or a politician. So, my theory is to try to convince them that they are thinking correctly but are taking the wrong action. |
Bryan |
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40ngone
Senior Member
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 06:15:09 AM
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Being in a state that has had seatbelts for a few years, and seeing many of the same arguments for and against seatbelts, I won't say which side I am on, except it has added to our maintenance somewhat.
My question is, where do your customers come down on this issue? As a district or contractor has anyone surveyed the clients you serve? |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 07:12:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 40ngone
Being in a state that has had seatbelts for a few years, and seeing many of the same arguments for and against seatbelts, I won't say which side I am on, except it has added to our maintenance somewhat.
My question is, where do your customers come down on this issue? As a district or contractor has anyone surveyed the clients you serve?
I understand where you are coming from and I do take the "customer's" opinion into account many times. However, I am charged with keeping said "customer" safe. So, their opinion isn't valid if the end result of their opinion doesn't achieve safety. That's where common sense and experience trumps opinion.
Come to think of it, I believe this is exactly what is wrong with our country today. Politicians are more worried about an opinion from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about than facts from those who do. And I'm not just talking seatbelts in school school bus legislation.
Rant over. |
Bryan |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 07:31:05 AM
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| In three words or less; perception is reality |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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40ngone
Senior Member
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 08:52:03 AM
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| bwest, you make good sense, keep up the good fight. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2019 : 11:11:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 40ngone
bwest, you make good sense, keep up the good fight.
Thanks. I'm not sure I'm making any headway but I'm hard headed enough to keep trying.  |
Bryan |
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Topic |
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seatbelts
