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QzSue
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2014 :  6:03:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit QzSue's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have Hydraulic brakes, with Wabco system. ISSUE: when bus in motion, slowing to coming to a stop or leaving a stop, the parking brake tries to engage its self, causing the bus to pulsate? when this happens the parking brake light will light up for a second the go off. After a couple of issues, the Red Service light comes on. Had mechanic run diagnostic, code thrown shows Parking brake sensor. Changed this part today, still having the same issue. Mechanic isn't what to change next suggested maybe the parking brake actuator. Anyone else having issues like this???? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

mhernandez73
Senior Member

124 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2014 :  04:10:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit mhernandez73's Homepage  Reply with Quote
is there any adjustment on parking cable?I think we had an issue like that and adjusted park cable.hope this helps
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mastertech
Advanced Member

274 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2014 :  5:19:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is usually caused by a binding cable letting the shoes drag and grab . Many times it wont throw a code but you might get one for parking brake over travel. Whenever I work on the parking brake I change the shoes,hardware and both cables at the same time as they all get worn out together. If you could list exactly what the code is it would help also.
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QzSue
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  08:14:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit QzSue's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The code was 2033-14-P. The mechanic changed the parking brake actuator yesterday which, I am assuming, is the SAHR can many of the post I'm reading are referring to. The bus performed well this morning. I guess time will tell.
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QzSue
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  07:48:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit QzSue's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Still having issues with this parking brake. Changed Actuator & worked fine for 6 1/2 days, the brakes applied themselves again. Checked all wire harnesses, no brakes in wiring. Brought to authorized International dealer, they said it was an adjuster, I was doubtful. They changed the adjuster, next day the codes all came back while turned the key on. Now they are saying the ECU needs to be changed which is what I thought all along, but what do I know. Wasted 1 week, & parts & labor for a part that didn't fix the bus. I am beyond aggravated about this. Is there anyway I can get away with not having to pay for the original charge for the part that didn't fix it????? Waiting on ECU to come in. I sure hope that this will be it and & can get my bus back.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4507 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  09:26:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure what year this bus is, but I remember there being a big recall or field service campaign on these things a few years ago. Dealer should have verified it was done (or even it if was involved), but I'd double check that.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  11:58:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most dealers do a recall check when the units come in. Not much left to change after this is there?

Bryan
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Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
846 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  3:22:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yea, It would sure suck if you throw an ECU at it and end up needing a cable or something mechanical. I'd be talking to the WABCO rep on this one...
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  8:25:18 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
We have had some issues similar to this. Usually clearing codes if any in system can correct this. There were program updates to help with this. The system really is not what I would like to see on our buses, but we will have to deal with this until we retire these BE-200s we have. We are beginning to have the electric motors with long buildup time now. I've replaced some of them already.

I do like the website Wabco provides and the software.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
846 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2014 :  3:41:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BJ, on the long build up time what's good and bad? And, how old are your BE's? Thanks.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2014 :  6:28:36 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
We have 6 of them. They are 2006 and 2007, 3 of each. The long buildup time on the pump motors usually means they are getting weak and not building enough pressure to charge the nitrogen cylinders that are the brake booster. The motors can be replaced without opening the hydraulic side of the brake system.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1111 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  05:19:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bj i just had a pump failure and replaced the hole unit i didnt no they sell the pumps separate i called dealer and the told me i had to get hole hydraulic unit where did u find just the pump
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  12:27:31 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
We got ours from the dealer. Motor has number on them 4430010501 Wabco. Check see if they can do anything with that number.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1111 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  12:41:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok thanks i will note that for next time u would think the dealer would no that i told them i had a bad pump and they said u gotts replace hole unit we have plenty in stock
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member

303 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2014 :  10:20:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cal Mc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
before you go changing the pump for long build up times, try checking the build up time with the cap off of the reservoir. We change caps frequently and have yet to change a pump.
When we were in school we were always told to keep brake fluid in a sealed container to avoid absorbing atmospheric moisture. Now we have a system that has to breath in order to function. Because the system has to breath the fluid is to be changed every two years.
Why do we put up with this crap!
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mastertech
Advanced Member

274 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2014 :  01:42:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The caps have a goretex membrane filter in them which can get clogged with dirt or ice on cold days. Its designed to keep the moisture out of the fluid . Do not pressure wash the rezzy or it will get to much water in the cap and cause the long build up time and the pesky codes.An air bladder system is what should have been designed to keep air from going in and out of the rezzy.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2014 :  7:01:04 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Thanks mastertech, that info might be useful!

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  11:25:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Old post here. However, I have a 2010 CE200 that the pump sounds funny and is turning lights on on the dash. Plus, the driver complains about the lights and then when I go to diagnose it the lights are all off. It has stored codes of SID 57 FMI 9 and SID 57 FMI 6. Talked to the great Vince at MidWest and he said that it's pointing to a pump replacement. When I said "my experience is that those are a bargain", he laughed and said "try about 3 grand". So, I pressed a little more and he pointed out the issue they are having with the caps (mentioned above). I pulled the cap off and it does have negative pressure (suction) in there. Do you think a cap change will take care of this? I plan to try one. In fact, I'm just going to order two and change the sister bus out as well. As someone above said "why do we put up with this?" lol, I guess it's because we want to provide for our families.

Bryan
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CISDbusman
Advanced Member

302 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  3:04:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Old post here. However, I have a 2010 CE200 that the pump sounds funny and is turning lights on on the dash. Plus, the driver complains about the lights and then when I go to diagnose it the lights are all off. It has stored codes of SID 57 FMI 9 and SID 57 FMI 6. Talked to the great Vince at MidWest and he said that it's pointing to a pump replacement. When I said "my experience is that those are a bargain", he laughed and said "try about 3 grand". So, I pressed a little more and he pointed out the issue they are having with the caps (mentioned above). I pulled the cap off and it does have negative pressure (suction) in there. Do you think a cap change will take care of this? I plan to try one. In fact, I'm just going to order two and change the sister bus out as well. As someone above said "why do we put up with this?" lol, I guess it's because we want to provide for our families.



What lights are coming on? Are they on solid or flashing? I have one I/we have fought for a couple years. Its been to the dealer for an extended stay with no results and in another truck shop that basically turned it away as they didnt even know of such a system...

I have mine narrowed down to a bad/loose connection in the bulk connector at the unit under the bus. Got my parts just before Christmas break so I am about to jump back into this thing. I found a training PDF for IH techs online that told me more about the system and faults than anything I have read. I'll see if I can find a link. Its worth reading!!!

Good luck!!!
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flint1
Senior Member

Canada
70 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2018 :  5:44:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you Google "meritor wabco hydraulic power brake system" the service manual is online in pdf format. The 57-6 may indeed be caused by a faulty cap, however 57-9 is leakage too high. This has only been resolved by replacing the complete HCU unit for us. About 3200 canadian up here. My dealer programs the ecu for me before I pick it up. I don't have a pressure bleeder necc to bleed it. However I have a cap I screwed an air fitting into. Apply 25psi regulated pressure to it and viola, bleed away as per the procedure, it requires a helping hand to ensure the res stays full. Be carefull with the fittings, they like to twist off...
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CISDbusman
Advanced Member

302 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2018 :  04:53:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.navistarlearning.com/dotnet/application/downloadcontent2.aspx?flag=&content_id=12379

I have numerous Wabco manuals I have found online but this one gives different info on the system.

Hope it helps!! Good luck!!
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  07:48:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Old post here. However, I have a 2010 CE200 that the pump sounds funny and is turning lights on on the dash. Plus, the driver complains about the lights and then when I go to diagnose it the lights are all off. It has stored codes of SID 57 FMI 9 and SID 57 FMI 6. Talked to the great Vince at MidWest and he said that it's pointing to a pump replacement. When I said "my experience is that those are a bargain", he laughed and said "try about 3 grand". So, I pressed a little more and he pointed out the issue they are having with the caps (mentioned above). I pulled the cap off and it does have negative pressure (suction) in there. Do you think a cap change will take care of this? I plan to try one. In fact, I'm just going to order two and change the sister bus out as well. As someone above said "why do we put up with this?" lol, I guess it's because we want to provide for our families.

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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  07:56:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Opps, yes a cap change can be a fix for this poblem, I keep a couple in stock. Here we replace them more often in the winter as ice can form on the fine mesh screen, but even in the summer the mesh gets plugged up with dust.
Make sure you get the correct cap Meritor #S400 850 9150, IH # 2587199C1. here about 35.00
With the vacuum there, it can not build pressure, many service calls I go on, cant release park brake, I remove the cap and usually the vacuum is there, return unit to shop and replace the cap.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2018 :  08:01:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is some info. The guideling I use, takes a long time, or wont build pressure, vacuum present when cap removed.

http://www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/TP-1376.pdf
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CISDbusman
Advanced Member

302 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2018 :  3:36:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I pulled my bus in and changed just the connector assy at the ECU. So far so good. I found my old connector to be in pretty bad shape. Both of the slide in connector retainers on the side were broken along with a couple of the clips that keep the two halves together. I also found corrosion on about four of the smaller reward wires (#'s 1-5). One being the 'IGN 12 VOLT" that I thought I had a intermittent lose of connection with. I assume from my studies that if the ecu senses a loss of 12 volts that it goes into panic mode and flashes the lights then locks the e-brake once the bus gets below 2 mph. A cycle of the ignition switch would bring everything back to working order when it last acted up. The corrosion on the wires I found, wasn't at the end where they make contact with the ECU pins it was in the area of the slide in side locks which is also the area where the terminal is crimped on. Any I found corroded in that area got a cleaning up and a dab of silver solder applied. All connectors were cleaned at the contact area with fine sand paper and I also hit the ECU pins.

Also to the dash showed "Electrical Fault" when I started it up to bring it into the shop for theses repairs.

Time will tell if I got a scald on it or not but I am feeling better about the repairs each trip out.

So I HIGHLY recommend a very good once or twice over of the bulk connector if you are having issues, especially the "Electrical Fault" showing up on dash.

I have a video of how that dash was acting Ill have to scrounge up and attach to this thread also. Link to video added below.

Hope this helps someone else down the road.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZusg52RMEQ&feature=youtu.be

Edited by - CISDbusman on 01/23/2018 04:44:04 AM
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