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Shawn Weaser
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 03/11/2001 : 6:39:31 PM
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Anyone out there who can tell me what they think of there Amtran front engine transit style bus.How do they compare to the Thomas EF?How are they for service after the sale?How is the parts availability?
CDSDMECH87 |
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2001 : 7:56:31 PM
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AmTran in general has some good ideas in design, but they have very poor implementation. Quality control *****, they have a ton of recalls, and they only last for a couple years at best. I know a fleet that retired a 92 Genesis as a spare and still runs 85 Waynes on regular routes.
As for AmTran vs. Thomas, there is no comparison whatsoever! Thomas has the best bus available. They don't cut corners, and unfortunately, that means they don't cut costs. If you can afford it, go with Thomas. If not, second best is Blue Bird. But don't go with AmTran...you pay more overall in service costs.
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2001 : 07:55:47 AM
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Hi Shawn,
We have several variations of Amtrans and Thomas buses. We have several Amtran FE's 99-00-01's and they are great. The 99's had a problem with entance door bushings that was remedied quickly, otherwise they are super! Our drivers love them! The 2000 and 2001 models have the very large type RE entrance door that is just great!
With any FE type "D" bus the aisle narrows at the engine cover and the right side modesty panel. We decided to spec a 30" seat in the right front location to alieviate this problem on ESE buses. This way you also get the narrow 30" modesty panel and the opening widens by 9"!! It worked so well we did it on all FE's this year (ordered 46 of them).
My Thomas buses are type "C" and modified type "B" and they are O.K. I will say that Amtran was much quicker to come to our assistance than was Thomas when a problem developed with their chassis. Parts from either are o.k., but body parts are sometimes hard to get from ANYBODY! Thats my $.02! Hope it helps.
Joe |
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tidesinn2
Senior Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2001 : 5:26:32 PM
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Shawn-
I don't consider Amtran a real bus. All Amtran is is a "pile of Junk" on one of the best engines in the industry. Fairfax has hundreds of them and they are regretting every second of it. They have been a complete nightmare. Fuses blow constantly, the doors are failing, they look cheap, feel cheap, are cheap, and will most likely not last long. We have had many many Thomas drivers regret ever taking an Amtran. Now we have people almost fighting over Thomas'. We do have RE and FE both are not that great. The RE has that stupid wide entry door with the bottom step bigger then the landing at the top of the steps. That makes no sense. THe isle is more narrow then a Thomas. So why have a huge door and tiny isle? Amtran copies from Thomas with there buttons. If you want cheap get an Amtran. I hope you can do maintance for cheep and have an extra tow truck.
Chris
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2001 : 6:00:25 PM
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AmTrans are a pile of Junk I would have used a different 4 letter word to describe them, but I might get kicked off of the forum.
They are no longer called AmTrans because they were so bad they changed there name to International Bus Company. They also redesigned the driver area making it look nicer, but it is still cheap.
They have a new manual handle for the door you pull the lever straight out instead of going side to side as you do on all other buses. This is the only "cool" feature I have seen, and that would never be enough to make me switch from driving Thomas buses.
Many drivers on this forum have said how they do not hold up over time. The rest of the bus is still junk.
I agree with tidesinn2 why have a wide entrance door if you can hardly make it down the isle.
In 86 and 87 we bought Thomas we still have them they run as spares. The body's held up great the engines are International very good, but the engines are wearing out on these buses. They well retire soon I will cry when my 86 thomas goes. Then we bought blue birds from 89 to 97. They are OK buses if you are on a budget and can't afford Thomas buy a blue-bird. Our school thought they could get away with buying cheaper buses so they bought blue bird for about 8 years. They are now regreating it. Many quality issues. Even our newest ones have leaks. In 98 we went back to Thomas. I drive a 98 Thomas no problems with the body yet. International engine has a Transmission problem they can not seem to fix it, but it runs good other than that.
My only complaint is the control panel, it has nice large switches, but it is very close to you so if the wiper switches are a little hard to reach.
In 99 we purchased another Thomas-they redesigned the control panel making it 2 sections and putting it farther away from you, and the switches are even larger, this was my one complaint, and they already fixed it a year later. We have another Thomas Internationl Conventional on the way for 01. We are going to stick with Thomas now since they have few problems, and hold up the longest.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best busses on the Road." |
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Ricky
Advanced Member
USA
352 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2001 : 6:33:50 PM
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Many people seem to complain about AmTran, but I prefer AmTran over any of the other school buses. I have had good luck with the AmTran bus that I drive (1999 model). It drives good, it rides good and everything is so convenient for me. The wide entrance door is great. Better visibility reduces blindspots alot. AmTran, formerly known as Ward, has not let me down. I started on a 1980 model Ward bus that was 16 years old when I started driving it. The bus still drives good. The only problems with this bus were never with the body, always with the chassis. I'm sure Thomas builds a good bus, but I wouldn't give up my AmTran bus for a Thomas or anything else.
Stephen R. Adamson |
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SubaruBoy85
Active Member
25 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2001 : 2:58:05 PM
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We have about 7 95-97 Amtran conventionals, and I can say that at least two of them have been retired into spares, and don't get taken it out that much. Drivers prefer the older Thomas conventionals over these Amtrans, thus the Amtrans are usually on the lot all the time. The Amtrans were replaced w/ 98 & 99 Thomas buses. The only thing I like about the Amtrans, is the padding around the windows for your shoulder.
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2001 : 1:22:04 PM
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I know that most people out there are not too big of fans of AmTran (International) school buses. But, I am one of the few that are. It is just my opinion that I happen to favor them over other buses.
Thomas are excellent buses if cost is not an issue. My favorite Thomas bus is the all-new Saf-T-Liner ER. It is one NICE bus. Many, many new advancements have been made on these buses. Too many to list. The mirror system on these buses is outstanding as well.
In my opinion, though, I prefer the International/AmTran. They have come a long way over the years. If you do not believe me, then go see them for yourself at www.navistar.com. Also, you can read a couple other posts that I wrote on these forums which gives a lot of information on the many improvements International/AmTran has made. I am also a big fan of the Blue Bird buses as well.
There will always be some "bad apples in the basket", meaning, you will get some buses from the same manufacturer that are not as good as other buses that you may have. In my opinion, it depends where the bus is manufactured, regardless of the manufacturer.
For instance, my school district has bought International/Blue Birds since 1993. The '95's were made in Canada and the '00's that they recently received were made in Mexico and some right here in the U.S.A. I can say that the '95's from Canada and the '00's from the U.S.A. are much better than the '00's from Mexico. They are all the same bus (International/Blue Bird), but manufactured in different places, and you can tell the difference between them (in terms of quality control issues). The ones from Mexico have misplaced switches, paint splotches on the dashboard from the factory, and the only way to shut the entrance door is to lock it shut. You cannot just push it in to close it, it will just come back out at you so it is still half open. (I think that my school district corrected that problem on most of the buses, however.)
The bottom line is that I think Quality Control is a major issue these days for most, if not all, the manufacturers out there at one point or another. Every manufacturer (whether transmission, engine, body, or chassis) will have problems at one time or another.
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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International110
Active Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2001 : 07:42:59 AM
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Hello, Shawn.
First of all, AmTran didn't change its name to International because of poor quality...in fact, they didn't change at all. AmTran IS International.
Second, we have little if any problems with our Internationals. We have FEs and Conventionals. I hope I get to see the new International IC sometime soon. We do have some made by Thomas, and frankly, we've had many problems with it.
Now I'm not looking to anger people, but it really depends on other factors. Buses break down. An International FE could react to the environment differently in California perhaps than Arkansas, as might a Thomas.
In my experience, Internationals have been an excellent choice for our school district. As long as they are satisfying, what else can one say? :)
Jesse |
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Bri98-87
Advanced Member
USA
278 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2001 : 3:00:49 PM
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As I read the comments in this forum about all the different busses and how certain people have extreme dislike for certain buses, I must agree with International110. I've driven Thomas, Bluebird, Carpenter, and Ward buses and have had minor problems with all of them. For example Carpenters and Wards rust more easily than Thomas and Blubird. Sure some have more than others, but I think it all depends on how and where they are driven and maintained. When buses do actually break-down, you can't blame the body manufacturer and in turn "passionatley dislike" that particular company. It has to do with the Chassis manufacturer, i.e. Navistar, Ford, Freightliner, GMC etc. That's my piece Thanks, Brian
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2001 : 6:27:31 PM
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Hey Shawn,
I would go with a Thomas Bus over any of them! They make a great bus that last a long time with less maintenance! Yes you pay more, but you get what you pay for!!
Good Luck
Kevin
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ash992
Senior Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2001 : 2:54:27 PM
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I love AmTrans! I ride a 1996 RE and it rides great, I rode a 1999 RE and its even better!
Thomas are ok, but I think they don't "click" with me the way an AmTran does. And remember they are built on the best chassis...
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2001 : 7:40:26 PM
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Ash992
Well Thomas clicks with me-for example they last longer than any other bus-especially an AmTran, Consider yourself LUCKY to be riding a 96 model most have to be retired after 4 years max.- they fall apart so easily. There interior also holds up a lot longer the drivers area is not cheap like AmTrans, and the passenger seats are also built to last on Thomas.
I will agree they are built on the best chasis, as I feel International makes the best chasis, certainly not the best bus body.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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ash992
Senior Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2001 : 8:39:34 PM
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thomas86 a,
I respect your opinion-Thomas are good buses. But they don't look that good-they look like they were stuck in the 80s-no offense. The Amtrans look more modern, and even the Wards were the same way. I'm not trying to offend here.
-Ash992"The AmTran Nut"
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2001 : 04:45:13 AM
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Hey Ash,
Have you ever had the opportunity to drive a Thomas/Freightliner? If you want! You can call your Thomas dealer and they would bring out a Bus of your choice to demo!! The new Sa-T-Liner is really nice!! They have adjustable pedals, a switch to kill all your heaters and radio so you don't have to turn everything off at Rail Road crossing!!Thomas really has great Ideas!! If your interested give them a call!!
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ash992
Senior Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2001 : 04:46:33 AM
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Thanks BusBoy,
but I'm not a driver. I ride buses.
Ash992"The AmTran Nut" |
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2001 : 04:51:05 AM
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Oh!! Ok!!
Well thanks for being a big fan of the School Bus Industry!! So do you hope to be a bus driver someday or are you more into going to school to work in the Engineering end?
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2001 : 06:16:03 AM
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I would have to say that Thomas is a better bus just from experence. Now I don't know anything about Ward/Amtram/International. I'm sure the're good buses only if you take care of them. Thomas may be more "mula", but you get what you pay for.
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2001 : 3:48:13 PM
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I would have to said that I like Thomas. They are really good buses, my last two years of high school I rode Thomas on a international chassis.They were really good buses they never been in the shop unless it was being check once mouths.Other than that they were really good buses. The seats hold up very well,plus it was hard and firm. The paint job is outstanding.I also like our Thomas because it had brown seats.When I first rode my 98 Thomas 72capacity that was my first time every seeing a Thomas with brown seats.The seats I every saw in a Thomas Bus was green Or gray. I think the blue seats in a Thomas bus are cool too.
Edited by - Thomas00 on 04/24/2001 11:32:41 PM
Edited by - Thomas00 on 04/24/2001 11:34:13 PM |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 07:56:39 AM
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Thomas00
That is interesting brown seats. I currently drive a 98 Thomas International-it has the Grey Interior, the gray seats with the gray roof. The district or company that owns the bus must have speced it that way.
Most older Thomas's 70's 80's have the dark green seats with the light green roof. I had an 86 that was like this. Most of the 90's and 00's have the new Gray interior. I think blue would be cool. Brown would remind me of Blue Bird to much-and that is scary thought:)
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 09:58:33 AM
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Thomas86 the bus you drive sound just like like our 93 Thomas International it had gray seats and gray roof, but I alway thorght that the roof was a other color maybe I was wrong. Our retired 88 Thomas International had dark green seats and light green roof. The new Thomas have brown seats and light brown roof the brown seats look noting like the Blue Bird seats ,the Blue Bird seats are more darker than the Thomas.Other than that it look nice and make the bus lighter and cooler inside on a hot mouth in Georiga.I think the next time my school system order Thomas Buses they should get the blue seats and the light blue roof . Thomas86 have you every seen a Thomas with blue seats? they are very nice inside.
Edited by - Thomas00 on 04/24/2001 11:35:03 PM |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 10:57:00 AM
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Thomas00
No I have not seen the blue seats with the light blue roof.
We have an 01 model on the way, I think that is going to have the gray seats with the light gray roof, but we will wait and see. I don't know if I would like blue, but who knows I would have to see it. I really like the gray interior. Especially compared to the old green interior-the seats weren't bad but the green on the roof was an ugly color.
I don't like the color brown, I think Blue Bird should change their color to. Blue Bird had Green back in the day, then in the 80's they went to Brown.
I remember the old waynes that had red seats, of course this is showing how long I have been driving bus, so I will end this reply.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 12:06:49 PM
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Thomas86
Blue Bird now have red seats,Blue seats,and green seats.I have seen 99 and 00 Blue Bird with red seats around my area in GA.My school system have 00 Blue Bird International but they still have brown seats, I wish they had the seats in red they are a really nice color.Anyway most of all of our buses have brown seats. Thomas86 what kind of Thomas is the school geting International or Freightliner? Also do the school have Blue Bird? Is there anyone out there that have Blue Bird with red seats?,if do tell me what you think of it.
Edited by - Thomas00 on 04/24/2001 11:36:33 PM |
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 12:32:57 PM
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The 00 TC/2000 I rode last year had brown seats. The next town over has 2 00 TCs and 1 01. They all have red seats. It was a bit interesting the first time I saw them, but I actually think they look kinda nice.
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2001 : 3:39:14 PM
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Happy weekend everyone
It is solely up to the district or company what colour interiors to spec. I have to admit by far the nicest interior has to be the Thomas grey/ and grey combo. They began that in 89 if i am correct and have made that their standard interior.
The new Bluebird interior is bright White with the burgundy seat. However, the brand new Birds are now going to a standard burgundy seat or green seat . Bluebird wants to bring back the green.
Now heres the catch. If you work ina garage or have to order seats, you know there are every combo out there.
Heres what I mean
The following is a sample of all the different seat colour names that were given to the seats by the different manufacturers:
Thomas:
Pine green, Kentucky blue, light blue, brown, light brown, grey, almond
Ward: chestnut brown, ward original orange, light brown, georgia clay red, pine green, light green, pebble green, scotch green
AmTran: blue, light blue, superseat brown, chestnut, pine green, grey,
Bluebird: brown, dark brown- early 80;s,bluebird green, light green, red, black- early early 70's, grey- very few eevr ordered, blue, light blue,
Carpenter: grey, chestnut, dark brown, light brown, medium brown, almond, red, Kentucky blue, marbelized brown, dark grey,
As you can see, every manufacturer offers a variety of seat colours and combos to choose from. Its the one who orders the bus is the one you can yap at if yoy don't like. The reasos the blue seat is becommming common is because its the same colour of the blue ink pen so there is less work for a mechanic to do. It was done off of a nationwide study as to what the most common colour ink was found on seats and the winner was BLUE. I persoanlly think the blue seat is nasty. Its to dark, doesn't match any interior paint and persoanlly, it makes the bus look smaller. Keep the interiors bright and roomy and it will also keep it cooler in the summer if the seats are brighter.
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2001 : 06:44:20 AM
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BusDiva-
What color is Burgundy? Now they are making their roof bright white? Have seen this color befor?
Edited by - Thomas00 on 04/24/2001 11:36:56 PM |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2001 : 10:09:06 AM
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Burgundy if I am not mistaken, is almost like a dark, dark maroon color with almost like a purplish tinge to it, but not quite. It is a dark, rich red. I think that it is a nice color myself. Especially with a white roof.
I have seen some '01 AmTran RE's that have gray seats. The only other manufacturer that I have seen with gray seats would be Thomas. I think gray seats and gray interiors are really nice looking!!!!
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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augie
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2001 : 1:34:49 PM
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I read most of the comments and can see that emotion and past tradition seems to the the guiding light in most of them.
I would think that the inital vehicle specifications, blended with distributor support history, cost analysis to include inital cost and projected life cycle costs to be absorbed by the bus owner would be relivant to the overall decision on what to buy. It has been my experience that the quaility of bus being received from bus manufacturers is down across the board. My favorite is the one that provides reliable service, is supported by the dealer, has acceptable parts availability, does not require huge amounts of labor time to repair and seriously is appreciated by many different personality types and sizes of drivers.
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Leadfoot85
Active Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2001 : 6:13:13 PM
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quote:
Anyone out there who can tell me what they think of there Amtran front engine transit style bus.How do they compare to the Thomas EF?How are they for service after the sale?How is the parts availability?
CDSDMECH87
I don't know anything about the Amtran front engine but I drive an Amtran RE-Rear engine. From my personal experience they have alot of transmission problems. Mine clunks and carries on shifting into gear. After the tranmission gets warmed up
it does not shift properly. When you come to a stop you need to wait and let the transmission shift into low gear. Sometimes it takes alittle while. What I like about the Amtran RE's is the turning capability and the air ride seats. They're fun!
Leadfoot85
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ash992
Senior Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2001 : 6:50:29 PM
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The one thing I hate about any front engine bus is that the rear axle is too far fwd, it makes anyone behind the rear axle bounce and fly around over bumps.(That's with the exception of the Genesis short body-it was impossible to get behind the rear axle) Thats why I like RE buses. The axle is closer to the rear where it has less leverage and doesnt bounce around. And where i sit, just behind the wheelwell, it makes a nice little footrest where the well comes up.
Ash992"The AmTran Nut" |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2001 : 7:42:32 PM
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ash992,
Another reason why you don't bounce up and down as much on an RE than you do an FE, is because the engine is in the back on the RE. So, with the engine in the back, the back part of the bus has some weight on it and thus you don't bounce as much as you do on an FE which has the engine on the front and no weight in the back, unless there are other passengers sitting back there.
Another good thing about an RE, is that you have better traction on the rear wheels in poor road conditions. Just be careful braking going downhill though. It can get a little tricky with that added weight pushing the bus forward. I agree, the RE's are AWESOME!!!!
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2001 : 06:40:41 AM
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The bounciness depends on your suspension options and axle weight. You have the option to upgrade your axle to a heavier axle to reject much of the bounciness and then you can add an air ride suspension which makes the bus ride like a Cadillac no matter what style bus you choose. Whether front engine or rear engine it depends on how your company and or district spec'd your buses. Some districts feel that with the heavier axles they don't need an air ride and some feel its better and in the long run sensible to get the heavier axle and air ride suspension but all in all it depends on what your district prefers!!
Have a great day
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The Rockwood Colony
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 06:52:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a
Ash992
Well Thomas clicks with me-for example they last longer than any other bus-especially an AmTran, Consider yourself LUCKY to be riding a 96 model most have to be retired after 4 years max.- they fall apart so easily. There interior also holds up a lot longer the drivers area is not cheap like AmTrans, and the passenger seats are also built to last on Thomas.
I will agree they are built on the best chasis, as I feel International makes the best chasis, certainly not the best bus body.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road."
Hey Thomas86!
I know it seems crazy to respond to this comment all of these years later but I just had to! I drive a 77 passenger conventional 1996 AmTran dt466 3800 with an at545 and it is an absolute dream! Every part of this bus has held up beautifully over the years. There is not a lick of rust on it. Not even on the under carriage or under the hood! Every part of this bus looks like it is just a couple years old or less. The craziest part about this bus is that it's been in service transporting kids for all 21 years of its life! I am overwhelming satisfied with this bus!
I'm not trying to make anyone upset. I just thought most members involved in this thread would be shocked.
I DRIVE THE UNICORN!!!!! |
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The Rockwood Colony
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 06:57:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a
Ash992
Well Thomas clicks with me-for example they last longer than any other bus-especially an AmTran, Consider yourself LUCKY to be riding a 96 model most have to be retired after 4 years max.- they fall apart so easily. There interior also holds up a lot longer the drivers area is not cheap like AmTrans, and the passenger seats are also built to last on Thomas.
I will agree they are built on the best chasis, as I feel International makes the best chasis, certainly not the best bus body.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road."
Hey Thomas86!
I know it seems crazy to respond to this comment all of these years later but I just had to! I drive a 77 passenger conventional 1996 AmTran dt466 3800 with an at545 and it is an absolute dream! Every part of this bus has held up beautifully over the years. There is not a lick of rust on it. Not even on the under carriage or under the hood! Every part of this bus looks like it is just a couple years old or less. The craziest part about this bus is that it's been in service transporting kids for all 21 years of its life! I am overwhelming satisfied with this bus!
I'm not trying to make anyone upset. I just thought most members involved in this thread would be shocked.
I DRIVE THE UNICORN!!!!! |
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thomasbluebird30
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2019 : 4:43:10 PM
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I'm new to this forum, but I have thirty years in the bus industry as of June of this year.
I lean toward Thomas,Bluebird, Wayne, Carpenter, Ward/Amtran/IC and superior in that order.
Prefer the C2 despite the early electrical problems they had. And I love the Vision. Drove a GMC CAT 3126 Bluebird for Atlantic Express for many years. The C300 and 200 are an improvement over the Junktran junk I drove when Atlantic took over Caravan and Pupil back in the 1990's here in New York city. |
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Amtran vs. Thomas
