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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2007 : 12:44:57 PM
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I was wondering the correct way to adjust the crossviews on a 2001 bluebird/ int. with what I believe what they call "Hawk Eye" convex mirrors. I have read on here that some believe that crossviews are adjusted incorrectly if the driver sees the roof-cap in the mirror and/or the side of the bus. The driver (which is good at her profession) told me she was told to adjust her mirrors so she could see down the side of the bus, the danger zone in front of the bus and the roof cap.
Her Reasoning:
(down the side of the bus) the driver can see a child running up to the bus.
(roof-cap) can see her lights.
(danger-zone in the front of the bus) This to me is what they are for. She said she was taught to honk the horn if a student was doing something in front of the bus they weren't supposed too.
I always thought the rear-view mirror set-up on the 1995-2002 Blue Birds was annoying. I've heard they create blindspots because of the 2 mirror set-up (an old driver once told me that.) |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 2:30:55 PM
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I hate those style of crossview mirrors. We use the Bus Boy and Safety Cross from Mirror Lite on our conventionals. Unfortunately this is all Thomas and Blue Bird offer now, it's BS! That style of mirror is more likely to pick up sun glare. Crossview mirrors are supposed to be adjusted to view the pedestrian danger zones around the front of the bus, not for viewing lights, not for viewing traffic. Traditional Bus Boy style mirrors do that very well.
As for the rear-view mirror setup on Blue Birds, those are considered "double nickles". Any mirror creates a blind spot, it does vary with each mirror style and is also affected by where the mirror is mounted. We speced our Thomas conventionals with the drivers side double nickles out in front instead of viewed through the side window. Our Birds had it on the side however I have seen a few of those with that setup out front. I'm not too fond of the newer Avia style mirror Blue Bird uses, the convex is odd. The traditional style offered by Rosco and used on IC's is better in my opinion.
You will get many different opinions on mirrors from different drivers, in our district the setup of choice for a conventional is double nickle rear-view (drivers side mounted forward of the windshield) and Safety Cross for the crossviews from Mirror Lite Co. The interior mirror preference is 10x30 instead of the standard 6x30 with the visor mounted in line with the mirror. Our HDX's have the Integra style "mega" mirrors, I don't mind those. Some drivers out there still like the standard "West Coast" style mirrors with a 7x16 flat mirror and 8' round convex. Some drivers do prefer the Hawk Eye Crossviews so they can see their lights and the Euro Style rear views because both mirrors are housed together. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 2:58:48 PM
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This is something where driver preference depends on what the driver is used to, what they trained on, etc. For example, I trained on and drove buses for 3.5 years with west coast mirrors (7x16 flat and 8" round convex). I now drive a bus with Mirror Lite Super Nickels (10x10 flat and 10x10 convex) and still haven't found the best way to adjust the flat mirrors. My run includes a lot of backing into driveways at various angles, and I always found backing easiest when I can see the tires touch the ground in the flat mirrors. Unfortunately, with my Super Nicks, that would make my flat mirrors useless for viewing traffic.
My opinion: Best mirror system is one that lets you see the rear clearance light and the bottom of the tire in one flat mirror. Convex mirrors should fill in blind spots on the sides of the bus, and crossovers should show the ground in front and to the sides. Headlight visors need to be included if headlights are visible in the crossovers. |
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NathanW
Advanced Member
United States
313 Posts |
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98TomFord
Top Member
USA
812 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 7:30:40 PM
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Well adjust them to how ever you want them really. Just remember you are suspose to see the sides of your hood by the front wheels and across the front bumper according to law.
Me personally I adjust the mirrors so that I'm able to see down the side of the bus on both sides, across the front bumper to atleast 8-12ft infront of me and the flasher cap, this way I know all of my flasher up front are working properly and traffic will stop when I need them to. Ofcoarse my way of setting up the crossovers is wrong, but it's all driver preferance.
Those first student buses would bug the **** out of me with that crossover setup. I'd be changing that in a heart beat. Waste of a mirror you ask me having them set up like that. |
My Ford Can Turn On $50, Can Your Int? ~Ford Buses - Gems To The Eyes~ |
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 8:10:13 PM
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| Our mirrors are adjusted so that we can see down the sides of the bus, in front of the bus and the bumper, the warning lights (but not as high to see the very top of the roof cap), and the turn signals (but not the headlights). I have been in buses where they have them adjusted like those in the pictures. I don't like them. I love the super nickels. They are my favorite mirrors yet. The new C2 mirrors aren't as great as the super nickels but better than the west-coast style in my opinion. The all time worse was our late-80's Ford B600's. Tiny mirrors, minimal adjustment, THEY SUCK. I have had to do the backing with them, talk about being nervous. |
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
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dem84skeeprollinup
Top Member
USA
888 Posts |
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 06:16:26 AM
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| And see, that Vision has them adjusted so that you can just barely see the warning lights. Thats very similar to what I have my crossviews set up to view. |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 2:37:10 PM
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Thanks for the information. We will be getting another bus.
Here are the Specs:
2001 Blue Bird International 3800
International T-444-E 190hp.
Red Seats
High back drivers seat
Cruise Control
Custom Radio Corporation 5340 w/ Intergrated PA system |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 02:30:43 AM
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I have the same style "Hawk Eye" cross-views on my Bus. I have them out and up, I can see my 8-ways and both sides of the roadway from the very front to almost to the back on My side and just barely front to all the way to the back on the Door side... NO PROBLEM! It's all in how you adjust them and what works good for you. Personally, I set mine up to see the front corners, the back, and my lights. I don't really need to worry about the very front, because our crossing gates are long enough that you have to go around them... there's no cheating them.
We have a similar style of the HD mirrors (as shown) on our Freightliner/Thomas buses and they SUCK! They are such a pain in the   to adjust its not funny! |
kEvIn
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vewright
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 04:37:39 AM
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With regard to the statement: "I don't really need to worry about the very front, because our crossing gates are long enough that you have to go around them... there's no cheating them," no one should rely on crossing arms to keep kids out of the danger zone. I am personally aware of two cases where this was not sufficient. In one a small child was run over when crossing from left to right to meet her sister who had gotten off the bus. the driver did not see her and ran over her. In another case a first grade student ducked under the crossing arm and was out of sight of the driver when he was run over.
Always adjust mirrors to see under the bumper and sides of the bus back to the rear tires -- and do not rely on crossing arms or detectors to ensure that there is not a child in the danger zone.
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misterbill
Advanced Member
United States
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 04:56:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by the First Student guy
I an not a fan of people who use their mirrors to just make sure their 8-ways are working.
Not sure if I 'only' use my bus boys for checking my lights-but I never use my elmo. Don't like taking my eyes off of the road and kids and traffic. Why don't they put elmos where you can see them?
I am kind of spoiled-I drive out in the country, think I have two elementary kids who cross. It really isn't an issue for me what I do. I watch the two of them cross in front of the bus and watch them get on. Once in a blue moon(and not elementary kids)I'll have someone run up behind the bus that is late-but I've learned to remember to look for them before I pull ahead.
BTW-the first thing I did when I got my new bus was to adjust the bus boys so that I could see my 8 ways. Not a real fan of bus boys-seems like I could see more with the old double spots. |
High School Friend-"Hey! How are you! Well, I guess you can't be doing too well, you're driving a school bus." |
Edited by - misterbill on 10/14/2007 05:01:10 AM |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 08:57:15 AM
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Thomas has begun placing the ELMO where it is easier to see. Starting with the conventionals in 99 they moved it forward on the control panel (although still to the side). When the HDX came out it was placed on the dash, the conventional location was moved in 04, they started using the smaller unit and placed it on the angled panel right next to the amber switch. The C2 has it all the way forward on the control panel where it is easy to see.
The Wayne's had a good setup with their control panel and light monitor location, it's too bad it took others 20 years to catch up on that.
Blue Bird and IC are still mounting it up above, I'm not a fan of that and I don't care for the AM/FM placed up there either. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 7:33:44 PM
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Exterior Light Monitor Operations
It's an old-school term for them. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 8:23:33 PM
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No, Bret... you're wrong.
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 8:36:05 PM
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 9:19:17 PM
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OKAY... upon further inspection of my cross-views on Friday, I can see the very front of my bus down to the ground... right where my kids are crossing, so it is possible to view everything.
Furthermore, WHY are you relying solely on your mirrors to make sure your kids are out of safety... God gave you eyes, USE THEM. As your kids are getting off... COUNT THEM! If you have 6 kids get off, then you should have 6 kids cross in front of you or away from you. If you don't... well, something's rotten in Devonshire. Plus, I don't know of ANY of my kids that are that small that I can't see them that will meander our cross gates. Ours are the standard yellow plastic ones, but when they come out, they angle down; and are at their lowest point at the end... 10 feet away from me. A first grader with EXTREMELY well dexterity? Maybe... but probably not |
kEvIn
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 08:41:37 AM
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| Who said they were relying on their crossview mirrors alone to make sure the roadway was clear? |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 2:54:08 PM
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#1: Crossing gates aren't fool proof. They're a nice tool to assist the driver, but don't get too comfortable with them...you never know when you'll have a malfunction. Furthermore, kids today are so used to the gates, if it doesn't come out, they'll cross right in front of the bumper.
#2: Counting kids doesn't always work. If you have 2 on the right and one on the left, fine. We have one stop in the town I drive in where over 30 K-8 kids get off the bus every afternoon, some cross, some don't. Impossible to count kids because the first kid off is already inside their house before the last one even gets out of their seat. The best solution is to keep your eyes moving--just keep scanning from kid to kid outside the bus to make sure anyone near the bus keeps going where they're supposed to go. |
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misterbill
Advanced Member
United States
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 4:25:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bus724
We have one stop in the town I drive in where over 30 K-8 kids get off the bus every afternoon, some cross, some don't.
You have what!?
I gave up my kindergarden this year because I didn't dare teach them to cross.
THIRTY!? |
High School Friend-"Hey! How are you! Well, I guess you can't be doing too well, you're driving a school bus." |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 4:30:56 PM
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| Sorry, I wasn't clear in that...the run is for a school that serves kindergarten to 8th grade. 30 kids get off at that stop, ages range from K-8. If the little ones cross, parents escort them, but the older kids are on their own. |
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misterbill
Advanced Member
United States
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 4:41:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bus724
Sorry, I wasn't clear in that...the run is for a school that serves kindergarten to 8th grade. 30 kids get off at that stop, ages range from K-8. If the little ones cross, parents escort them, but the older kids are on their own.
HAHAHA!!
Thanks-but it was still worth it for me to imagine thirty kindergarden kids at one stop!! HAHAHA!!! |
High School Friend-"Hey! How are you! Well, I guess you can't be doing too well, you're driving a school bus." |
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 4:51:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by the First Student guy
Nice one rich. Thomas86-a, you need to rely on both your cross overs and your eyes. Everyone SHOULD have at least a little portion of their cross overs at the front of the bus so you CAN see the ground and up at the front of the bus.
A kid telling a pro what to do. Thats funny |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 7:10:52 PM
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Well when you read your original response it has my name and then a response to it. That's why I, and others on here, figured you were directing that at me. When I started driving bus you had two round convex mirrors on each corner, left a little room for blind spots but with some good adjusting you could get a pretty good shot of everything you needed to see. You just didn't get as much coverage on each corner as you do with the newer setups.
I think the drivers on here know that they need to see the area in front of their bus, there is just some debate on whether or not the overhead warning lights need to be visible as well. I know Rosco's offer a very large coverage area up above, however if you are adjusting Bus Boy's so that you can see the overhead lights I would definitely question how effective those mirrors are at seeing in front of the bus.
And yes crossing gates can be very in-effective if the student walks past it and drops something and then walks back towards it while standing right in front of the hood. Of course you are watching the students cross but at the same time a student in the back of the bus screams and you look up in the passenger mirror. The chances of that happening at the same time are very slim but it's a possibility. The example of a first grader was mentioned, nobody said first graders were standing in front of the bus doing the limbo dance with your crossing gate, but it wouldn't be that hard for a student to walk back in front of the bus when you happen to be checking your rear view mirrors or making sure the entrance door is clear before closing it. That's why I'm a strong advocate of properly positioned cross-view mirrors which are always the last mirrors to be checked before your foot is let off the brake.
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If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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Peter
Top Member
USA
1057 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 05:35:12 AM
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It's not a matter of personal preference. The correct way to adjust hawkeye or cat's eye mirrors is so that they show the ground in front of the bus. A correctly adjusted mirror will give you a good view of the area directly in front of bus that is hidden from your direct line of sight. Crossover mirrors should show nothing higher up on the bus than the lower rubber border of the windshield. These mirrors are not intended to allow the driver to see the eight-ways. Eight-ways are inspected during the pre-trip. quote:
if you are adjusting Bus Boy's so that you can see the overhead lights I would definitely question how effective those mirrors are at seeing in front of the bus.
Exactly. If you have the mirrors adjusted incorrectly, you might as well take them off the bus because they're not doing any good. You're just asking for trouble. |
Spicer is nicer. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 02:28:54 AM
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| This was a VERY good topic for discussion, I think. My situation I'm sure is like most rural School Bus drivers. Those of you who drive in other areas must understand that the situation you provide... the 30 kids at one stop going every direction and the like don't apply to me (and alot of others, I'm sure). My stop is 40 minutes long; both ways. I have 49 kids on my bus, K-12. My stops are 1-2 minutes apart, and the largest one has about 13 kids... and they ALL get off at the same side of the roadway, no matter which of my 13 stops it is... ie... they ALL cross in front of me, or they don't. So, it's easy and effective for me to say... if I have 7 students getting off at this stop, then all 7 better be on the other side of the roadway before I start going again. My methods work for me. Like I said, a very, VERY good topic... keep the discussion going! |
kEvIn
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 10:17:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by the First Student guy
Our company is not alowed to put K-12 together. It's K-5, 6-8, and 9-12. Our company is set up so you either have K-5 and 6-8, or K-5 and 9-12. Our high school stops are in groups so it doesn't take so long to get to the elementary school in the afternoon. Back to discussion, wheather or not you have a huge group crossing in front of your bus or not, you need to have the set up correctly.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't have your mirrors set up correctly. When anyone becomes a driver, they need to set the mirrors up in their Bus that's appropriate for them, the counter-claim that I was making is that where as some people don't have the ability to have such a small group to watch; I and other people like me do... and YES, whether your mirrors are adjusted or not, it helps and you're more able to count each student, if you so desire. Think Smarter... not Harder, if you're able to |
kEvIn
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 08:11:05 AM
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| No... I agree with you on that. The picture you provided is just overkill. In THAT instance, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that the driver of that Bus can see ANYTHING in front of them. If I get pro-active here in the next week, I'll take pics of my Bus from the front looking towards the Bus and from the Driver's seat looking out, so you can see what I see.... Now I'll have that song stuck in my Head... too early for Christmas music |
kEvIn
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 12:20:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by the First Student guy
What song?
"Do you hear what I hear"... it's a Christmas song. Listen to it. There's a verse that is "Do you see what I see".... get it now? |
kEvIn
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 3:07:50 PM
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| I don't remember being so damn cocky when I was a younger member. |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 3:47:12 PM
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No, not that last time, but you need to ease up a little in how much you post and the way you assert your points of view. Perhaps it's not your intent, but many of oyur posts read "as a matter of fact," so whatever you could do to tone it down just a bit would be helpful in keeping tempers down.
The wise man is the one who listens. Just sit back, calm down, and be a little more passive in your postings. In some threads, you ask questions that have already been answered earlier in the very same thread. Now we're all human, but when questions come at us rapid-fire, it can test on some peoples patience. Take your time reading and understanding the threads. There is a lot to be learned here, and you'll probably have good opinions to contribute in time, but just slow down a bit please.
It's hard to put into tangible descriptions, but you really develop a personality displayed to others when you consistently post in a community like this. Just think about that in your writing. |
Edited by - Thomas Ford 85-16 on 10/24/2007 3:51:21 PM |
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dem84skeeprollinup
Top Member
USA
888 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 2:30:47 PM
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We just retrofitted one of our 2000 bluebird 3800's with the new HD's. I think they put them angled up to high but they seem to show a better veiw of where you need to see.
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 5:45:39 PM
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quote:
We just retrofitted one of our 2000 bluebird 3800's with the new HD's. I think they put them angled up to high but they seem to show a better veiw of where you need to see.
Yup, you are correct. Those crossview mirrors are adjusted too high!
I wish I could retrofit my Hawkeye mirrors with the HD set-up.
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Edited by - B. Busguy33 on 11/07/2007 5:46:13 PM |
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dem84skeeprollinup
Top Member
USA
888 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 9:18:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by B. Busguy33
quote:
We just retrofitted one of our 2000 bluebird 3800's with the new HD's. I think they put them angled up to high but they seem to show a better veiw of where you need to see.
Yup, you are correct. Those crossview mirrors are adjusted too high!
I wish I could retrofit my Hawkeye mirrors with the HD set-up.
Actualy, think you can Bob. You would use your exsisting hawk-eye brackets, like on this vision.
http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=30&listing=213&listingmode=detail
I think the coverage a way more superior to a hawk-eye. |
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Topic |
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Correct way to adj Crosviews on bb/int.
