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Josephine Pedato
New Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2001 :  07:08:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How long do your buses warm up in the morning?

marty
Active Member

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2001 :  04:05:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
depends on weather, even at zero, i tell drivers to warm up only 15 minutes max. talk to your dealer and see what they say.

marty
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wagonmaster
Top Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2001 :  04:42:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A word of caution!
NEVER race your cold engine regardless of where you live, what the temperature is, or how late you are! Its easy to push that accelerator down to build up that air pressure in a hurry, but don't do it!! The extra wear and tear on the engine and internal components isn't worth the extra minute or two you might gain. Let those engines build up pressure normally, and they will live much longer. This is true for all engines, but especially the diesels!! Your Shop Foreman will appreciate it, too!
Joe
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AW
Senior Member

52 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2001 :  1:34:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why do some diesel buses have a fast idle switch then?

At my old school, the drivers (of the transit buses with air brakes) would hit this switch, boosting the idle from around 650 RPM to 1500 RPM any time they parked, loaded, unloaded, etc. regardless of the weather.

This is not to say that they never turned a bus off, but for example: if a driver took 1 first grade class on a field trip and back in the morning, and had to wait through the lunch period to take the other first grade class, some drivers would set there with the bus on fast idle the whole time. (usually around an hour ) Others would turn it off until the kids started to board.



Edited by - AW on 02/27/2001 1:35:34 PM

Edited by - AW on 02/27/2001 1:36:02 PM
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wagonmaster
Top Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2001 :  06:12:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Idling isn't good for any engine, but it is necessary at times to keep the bus warm(or cool if a/c equipped). The fast idle will keep the heater/a-c on and allow the charging system to keep up with electrical demands, and keep freon and lubricating oil circulating in the a/c system. Trailways/Greyhound type buses have had that feature for over 40 years for these reasons. We have programmed our engine computers programmed to go into high idle ANY time the bus is running, in neutral, parking brake set, and a/c turned on, automatically, to prevent damage to the a/c compressors. If the ones you see running aren't serving one of these functions, they are probably just wasting fuel, and putting needless wear on engine components. Hope this helps.
Joe
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cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member

USA
325 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2001 :  10:18:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit cowlitzcoach's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't like my drivers idling their engines more than absolutely necessary. With diesel engines, or at least with mine, you could idle them all day long and they would never get up to operating temp.

Beyond doing the pre-trip inspection and paperwork I don't like my drivers idling the engines. Sometimes one has to idle for long periods of time if the heat or a/c has to be running. For the most part however, idling just wastes fuel. Remember, when you are idling you are getting ZERO MPG.

Getting the bus out on the road and working will warm the bus up faster than anything else.

Mark O.



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boomur
Senior Member

Canada
53 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2001 :  2:02:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We recomend that when you idle your bus first thing in the morning that you do not shut it down until the temp gauge starts to rise. On a diesel engine this is especialy important so as to avoid moisture buildup in the engine. We also have our pretrips staggered so that we do not start our buses until about 10 minutes before we are scheduled to leave for our morning run. The rest of the day we start about a minute or two before we leave the yard. All other times mostly due to EPA regulations we shut our units off whenever we are required to wait more tha 2 minutes.

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JK
Top Member

USA
7307 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2001 :  12:49:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit JK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is an interesting discussion. I've had a situation maybe someone can help answer. At a bus stop on a rural route, I back the bus from the main road on to a side road. I have to stop the bus within 50 feet of a stop sign because of a narrow bridge behind the bus on the side road. But when doing that, and because the bus is too close to the stop sign, I can't lawfully cross kids. Also, the kids walk about a half mile up the side road to their homes and crossing the kids would place them walking with traffic, another no-no. Finally, from where the bus is stopped, trees blind the bus to a clear view of approaching traffic on the main road, a road with frequent log truck use. What I do is engage the parking brake, activate the hazards and crossing lights, shut off the Cummins 6-cylinder diesel engine, have instructed the kids to walk along the passenger side of bus past the back of the bus and to stay facing traffic at least until the bus has departed. (I shut the engine down so I can hear what is going on outside the bus, the kids and approaching traffic on the main road. I don't care for the stop (some safety issues) and said so, but management insisted the stop is fine. After explaining how I deal with that bus stop, management bulked at my shutting the engine down -- said it was unsafe to do that. The only reason I could get was that is was unsafe because the two-way radio is off, which has nothing to do with the engine off. (The radio is still on in accessory mode.) In a private discussion with the bus mechanics, they laughed and said there's nothing unsafe about shutting the engine down.

Any comments on the reasoning that it is unsafe to shut down the engine for a minute or so in this situation would be appreciated. Comments that it's not unsafe to do so also appreciated. (jk)


Edited by - jk on 04/06/2001 10:14:32 AM
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B. Busguy33
Top Member

USA
3444 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2001 :  08:04:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit B. Busguy33's Homepage  Send B. Busguy33 an AOL message  Send B. Busguy33 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
jk,

In my opinion, I think that shutting the engine down in this situation is a very safe, right thing to do. Even though it is only for a minute, the bottom line is that these are childrens life you are dealing with. Safety should ALWAYS come first. And I do believe that shutting your engine down is a very safe and smart thing to do, so that you are able to make sure your children will be safe getting across the street. Having the engine shut down makes a big difference in what you can and cannot hear and I believe it helps to have the engine shut down so you can be able to hear any traffic that may be coming.

Bob
"B. Busguy33"
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Phil4747
Top Member

USA
695 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2001 :  11:53:35 AM  Show Profile  Send Phil4747 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I agree that it's safe, and the better choice, for lack of more options. I can, however, see why they would think otherwise. You're technically "parking" the bus right in an intersection. By parking on the travelled portion of a road, you create a safety risk for the bus itself and for other vehicles.

I would talk to your supervisor about changing the route, or the possibility of getting an aide to go out and help load the students.

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JK
Top Member

USA
7307 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2001 :  12:26:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit JK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

I would talk to your supervisor about changing the route, or the possibility of getting an aide to go out and help load the students.



Follow up: A parent confronted management about the stop and the stop was changed to a safe location. Management called me in to a meeting, asserting that I'd told the parent the stop was unsafe and had not advised management that the parent had a problem with the stop.

I hadn't said that to the parent, but did indicate that I felt uncomfortable with the stop. An e-mail to transportation showed that I had advised management about the parent's concern.

After some discussion, and a great defense from the union, management backed off. I remain employed. (jk)

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Edited by - jk on 04/14/2001 12:34:24 AM
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Busrepair
Senior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2001 :  05:54:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The buses here usually idle for 10 - 15 minutes in the morning. I know that cummins put the high idle switch on there engines because they were experiencing oil cumming out of the exhaust manifold after long idle times. The high idle corrected this situation. Please note this was on the semi trucks that were idiling for long periods of time. I have not heard of a problem on the buses. As far as the unsafe stop and turning the bus off I feel the driver should do what they feel is appropriate to ensure the safety of the children. If you did tell the parent or not the situation got resolved and regaurdless of what steps had to be taken as long as they are safe is what needs to be looked at. This also should show everyone DOCUMENT WHAT YOU TELL YOUR SUPERVISOR, ETC..


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BUSBOSS105
Senior Member

USA
77 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2001 :  6:23:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WAGONMASTER has the right idea if your running a deisel engine. My drivers start their runs at 6:45 am and during the winter months it takes some time for these engines to warm when stored outside. Even though we plug our buses in with block heaters the high idle switches have to be engaged for the heaters to operate. At regular idle speeds the heaters won't ciculate and the bus remains cold until we start operating at regular speeds. So only during winter months do we idle our buses for long periods in the a.m.

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WayneLifguard44
Senior Member

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2001 :  12:10:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When our buses get to school or at night when it is cold the driver usally leaves the bus running for heat and other things. usally they cut them right off. I do not know how long they let them run after starting but it not good to let them run for long.


Wayne Lifeguard44 -Tyler
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transp
New Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2001 :  05:07:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Buses are warmed up for ten minutes minimum and longer during winter. Excessive idling at low speeds is damaging engines as it causes oil dilution and can clog injectors on diesels. High speed idle (around 1100) rpm is a good idle speed to keep injectors clean when idling is necessary. Another option to eliminate excessive idling in cold temperatures is an auxialary furnace which is spendy at the outset but can pay back savings in engine wear and fuel savings.
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Admin
Administrator

USA
1662 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2023 :  08:13:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For more general information about school transportation, check out our School Bus Fleet FAQ: https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/school-bus-faq
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