School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 Thomas Propane Buses
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  06:29:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was just informed that my Thomas dealer won't be bidding on our buses this year.

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  06:43:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We couldn't get a bid last December but our dealer told me recently that Thomas was back taking orders for propane buses again.
He has also told me that because of an available frame rail design they can use bigger diameter propane tanks, so we can get the large fuel tanks on 59/65 passenger buses.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 05/31/2018 06:57:35 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  06:45:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's no skin off my teeth. Just wondered why they said that. If they aren't confident in their product, I don't blame them.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  07:04:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe that they will be exiting the alternative fuel market and focus on the diesel market exclusively, with the new DD5 engine. Just my opinion having read between the lines on some things they are broadcasting.

I hope I am wrong because I like a healthy market competition.
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  07:54:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well they did just update their propane engine spec sheet finally in 2018, thats a positive sign. Note the engine has a new name;"DriveForce"

https://thomasbuiltbuses.com/content/uploads/2018/05/specsheet-c2-propane-spring-2018.pdf

I maybe mistaken but I don't recall the previous engine named PIthon having roller rockers or that high of a compression ratio.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 05/31/2018 08:32:30 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2018 :  08:50:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting. Didn't say anything about the engine manufacturer.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

black
Active Member

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  07:55:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit black's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I heard they are looking at offering the 8.8L PSI propane engine next year.
This is the same engine that IC currently uses. I wouldn't think that IC would be happy about this if true.
Seems to be a lot of confusion as to what Thomas is doing in the propane market place.
Go to Top of Page

krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  08:32:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by black

I heard they are looking at offering the 8.8L PSI propane engine next year.
This is the same engine that IC currently uses. I wouldn't think that IC would be happy about this if true.
Seems to be a lot of confusion as to what Thomas is doing in the propane market place.


About as happy as Thomas was when Cummins started selling engines to IC.

-Ken-
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  08:47:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, what about that 8.8. I have a neighboring district that bought one in an IC and it was late getting delivered plus, when they got it, they drove it for two months and now it's been in the shop for a month. They are thinking fuel pump bus sure are taking their sweet time with it. Just wondering if anyone else has had experience with them.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  12:35:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PSI, the company that makes the 8.8, bought out the Powertrain Integration company that supplied the 8.0 that Thomas uses a few years ago. So in essence PSI is already selling engines to Freightliner, just not the same one.....so far

http://investors.psiengines.com/news-releases/news-release-details/power-solutions-international-announces-agreement-purchase

https://ngtnews.com/psi-enters-agreement-to-buy-powertrain-integration-llc

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  12:48:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did one of those companies take over the Clean Fuel assets?

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  12:50:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.lpgasmagazine.com/agility-fuel-solutions-acquires-assets-of-cleanfuel-usa/

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  1:50:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting reading. I guess Clean Fuel is out of it then? They had a good system. I think the main reason BB went with Ford/ Roush is that the engine platform was still in production and they could get an OEM warranty.I think that's the reason that BB has been the only one who has been successful so far. I really hope the others get a handle on it. It's not a good thing for only one company to have a viable engine in this market. Competition is a buyers best friend!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2018 :  2:15:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

I think that's the reason that BB has been the only one who has been successful so far. I really hope the others get a handle on it. It's not a good thing for only one company to have a viable engine in this market.



The only one? I guess thats a matter of opinion.
We have five 2018 model year versions of all three brands, a 2019 IC on the way, I'll just let that choice speak for itself.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2018 :  10:38:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

I think that's the reason that BB has been the only one who has been successful so far. I really hope the others get a handle on it. It's not a good thing for only one company to have a viable engine in this market.



The only one? I guess thats a matter of opinion.
We have five 2018 model year versions of all three brands, a 2019 IC on the way, I'll just let that choice speak for itself.



Well, my Thomas dealer won't bid and a neighboring district took delivery (6 months late) on of an IC this school year. Ran 6 weeks and it's been down since. Dealer can't figure out what's going on. I won't go into details (because, frankly, I don't know them all) but it's safe to say the TD isn't too happy. Also. if these facts aren't enough for you, BB has been in the propane business for nearly 10 years and has 90 some percent of the units on the road. So, "the only one"? I'd say yes. My point in all this is; it does little good for customers for one company to be dominant in the market (slight dominance is ok). That leads to them being complacent and eventually delivery of an inferior product.

Just my two cents guys. I like balance. I love my BB dealer and that's the main reason I prefer them. But I'm sure if things we different in my past experience, I would prefer a different brand.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

jeeptjken
Senior Member

147 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2018 :  06:52:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have one of the first bb propane units delivered in our state with it now having 95000 miles on it and being out of warranty its time to become a money pit between transmission harness failure fuel pumps fuel valve and now a radiator its a tough call on these birds my bb dealer has a great road tech and we see him often sometimes weekly the power train in the ic has a 7 year 150000 mile warranty starting this year so we shall see

How did you get the gosinta in the whatchamacallit
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2018 :  07:22:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jeeptjken

We have one of the first bb propane units delivered in our state with it now having 95000 miles on it and being out of warranty its time to become a money pit between transmission harness failure fuel pumps fuel valve and now a radiator its a tough call on these birds my bb dealer has a great road tech and we see him often sometimes weekly the power train in the ic has a 7 year 150000 mile warranty starting this year so we shall see



Sorry to hear that. I have replaced a couple pumps but no trans problems yet. On the other hand, I have replaced enough parts on an IC engine to buy a really nice used pickup truck. lol

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
114 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  09:31:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think its safe to say that you are really rolling the dice if you purchase anything other than a Ford propane engine right now. Our district got 10 of the Thomas propane buses two years ago and holy cow what a nightmare.

Edited by - C2FAN on 06/06/2018 09:33:28 AM
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  09:43:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
C2fan, are the problems the base engine or the add-ons to make it a propane? Or are they Freightliner/Thomas problems? Just curious since we are constantly talking about switching away from diesel here.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  2:35:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

C2fan, are the problems the base engine or the add-ons to make it a propane? Or are they Freightliner/Thomas problems? Just curious since we are constantly talking about switching away from diesel here.



I am curious as well. A neighboring district got some BB gasoline engines and they love them. I cannot bring myself to go back to gasoline. I just contend that gasoline is less safe than either diesel or propane.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2018 :  11:53:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I drove to JH SB game this morning, could of driven anything on the lot but decided to "roll the dice" and enjoy the trip in an "unsuccessful, nonviable" Thomas propane

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2018 :  05:37:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

I drove to JH SB game this morning, could of driven anything on the lot but decided to "roll the dice" and enjoy the trip in an "unsuccessful, nonviable" Thomas propane






Bryan
Go to Top of Page

C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
114 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2018 :  4:11:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not going to get into specifics but we had a ton of problems the majority of which involved the fuel system which I found out after the fact was the fuel system that Blue Bird dropped. Needless to say the 10 buses are 4 years old and parked as spares. Call up your Thomas and dealer and try to order one, they don’t sell them anymore. enough said.

Edited by - C2FAN on 06/18/2018 4:13:28 PM
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2018 :  04:49:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://thomasbuiltbuses.com/content/uploads/2018/05/specsheet-c2-propane-spring-2018.pdf

https://thomasbuiltbuses.com/content/uploads/2018/05/specsheet-c2-spring-2018.pdf

Our dealer is taking orders again

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 06/19/2018 04:55:48 AM
Go to Top of Page

C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
114 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  11:35:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting, are we sure that is the same propane engine Thomas had been selling? I know for sure it has a different name. Thanks for sharing, I wonder who is making that engine.
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  12:20:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

PSI, the company that makes the 8.8, bought out the Powertrain Integration company that supplied the 8.0 that Thomas uses a few years ago. So in essence PSI is already selling engines to Freightliner, just not the same one.....so far

http://investors.psiengines.com/news-releases/news-release-details/power-solutions-international-announces-agreement-purchase

https://ngtnews.com/psi-enters-agreement-to-buy-powertrain-integration-llc



Reports of who's supplying the 8.0 engine are in this post.

I do know ours are subject to a recall to replace rocker arms and intake gaskets. I notice Thomas says the "Drive Force" engines have roller rockers, I don't recall that claim being made when they were called Pithon engines.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 06/22/2018 12:21:25 PM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2018 :  09:48:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Observation- It's interesting that, of the surrounding districts here, there are two brands of buses- Thomas and Blue Bird (there is one that has IC out of dozens). If you talk to the people in those districts, who maintain and operate the buses, you will find a rabid loyalty to each brand. So much so, that if this engine isn't available in their brand, they won't spec that engine. I am trying to be more open in my views. As most of you know, I genuinely believe that propane is the way of the future. I just wonder why Thomas is faltering on this fuel. I suppose time will tell what's going on. But the long and short of it today is that Blue Bird is in the driver's seat on this issue. Also, as I've stated before, I genuinely hope that the other companies get things together so BB has competition to keep them innovating.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  05:26:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do know which "driver's seat" I would rather be in.

Picked up our new 2019 IC propane bus at the dealer yesterday and drove it home, very nice.
As this is our first hydraulic brake bus since 2001 I was glad to see a more "conventional" system than what IC had been using. This one has a hydroboost system under the hood, no SAHR can operating the parking brake.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 06/26/2018 07:55:18 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  09:50:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I heard about that. What size tank?

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  10:26:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
68 gallon tank, its a 254" wheelbase 65 passenger. To my knowledge you have to get the 276" wheelbase chassis if you want the 90 gallon option, in Iowa that would of also meant air brakes only.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 06/26/2018 10:27:47 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2018 :  05:50:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

68 gallon tank, its a 254" wheelbase 65 passenger. To my knowledge you have to get the 276" wheelbase chassis if you want the 90 gallon option, in Iowa that would of also meant air brakes only.


I see. We don't have the air brake rule in Illinois. Seems strange to me but we don't have the rolling ground you have either. As for the larger tank, I won't order anything but. We live just far enough from St. Louis and Springfield (our capital) that we take several trips there per year and I don't want to be refueling while on the trip. We did that with the original gasoline engines we had when I started and we have done that with the first propane we got. Not going there again.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2018 :  05:56:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas salesman has told me they have a frame rail design that allows larger diameter/capacity tanks on the shorter wheelbase buses.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

wwinters
Senior Member

USA
114 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2019 :  09:08:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have purchased Thomas propane buses the past three years and have more ordered now
Go to Top of Page

knd1983
New Member

1 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2019 :  09:28:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit knd1983's Homepage  Reply with Quote
wwinters, you must be happy with the Thomas, can you tell me what you think of them, We are think of buying a couple propane Thomas
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2019 :  12:01:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas has the largest available propane tanks (100 gallon usable) and the most flexibility on chassis sizes that it can be installed in.
We currently have two propane C2s, are looking at bids on a couple more.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

wwinters
Senior Member

USA
114 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2019 :  05:17:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have 12 Bluebirds and 3 Thomas propane buses (the rest of my fleet is diesel) We really like the Thomas buses. all of my propane buses but two have the 100 gallon extended range tanks. both buses get about the same mpg. The drivers of the Thomas like them very well.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2022 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.21 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000