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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
804 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2017 : 10:20:24 AM
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| My district is getting ready to purchase a new bus . Not sure how amny of you have a say in what is bought . Well I have a say and wondered what you think is the better built bus ? We boughta Type C last year from an IC dealer . So far the bus is great but dealer service is terrible . So we may shy away from IC . I am curious what I will hear about ? Another distict near me seems to only buy Thomas . Thanks |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4545 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 10:31:24 AM
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Do what I did and ask your neighbors with different brands about the newest buses and the dealers. Dealer makes or breaks it nowadays. All 3 buses have improved, all 3 buses have faults.
I went IC, my neighbor to the East went Blue Bird, my neighbor to the South went Thomas. We should all get our buses about the same time. Gonna be fun to compare notes! |
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bedfordone
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 11:45:39 AM
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| LION has been a good bus for us, I also like IC. |
Brian Prochazka
Bedford City Schools
Transportation Specialist |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4545 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 12:27:01 PM
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| I'm very anxious to see the long-term effects of road chemicals on the floor of the Lion bus. The rest of the body looked impervious, the floor looked just like any other bus'. Hoping I'm wrong. |
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dsalinas1939
Top Member
USA
1324 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 12:44:22 PM
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| whatsthe price on those lion buses i never saw them before where are they made just lookied them upthey look nice but curious on the price and what motor is in them |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 12:59:03 PM
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| I agree that each manufacturer has their good and bad points and that it usually boils down to dealer and product support. This will vary widely across the country. |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 2:07:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dsalinas1939
whatsthe price on those lion buses i never saw them before where are they made just lookied them upthey look nice but curious on the price and what motor is in them
Lion is over 100 large. Cummins. |
Edited by - second.flood on 01/24/2017 2:08:11 PM |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 03:37:52 AM
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We have went with Blue Birds the last 2 years because of all the IC problems. First it was the engines but now since they all have the cummins that is not a problem. To me and the neighboring counties, IC just builds a crappy cheap bus body. The window glass falls out because the side frame extrutions break and the replacement part is 28-40 bucks each and it takes 2 per window. Next the window latches are plastic and cheaply made causing the windows to not stay closed. The seat foam back cushions split across the top causing the frame bar to be exposed. We are now replacing those on 2011, 2012 and 2013 buses. During each 20 day inspection you have to tighten the ceiling screws up.
The only issues we are having on our Birds are water leaks in above the windshield. The dealer can't find the leaks and now BlueBird is involved.
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US Army retired CMBT |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 05:06:50 AM
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We have bought ICs the last 3 years and a couple Collins type As as well. The ICs aren't too bad overall, but they do have their flaws. We haven't seen much as far as body complaints go, although we had 2 sped buses that within minutes of each other had their lift handles fall off while on route. We had one batch that had tons of issues with regens. We also bought a transit with a Maxxforce in it, so that should speak for itself. As far as the dealers go, our IC dealer is pretty good to us, although we often times have to get the general manager involved because the service department doesn't want to do their part for warranty. Other than that, they are pretty ok. We pretty much refuse to buy Thomas buses based strictly on the dealer/salesman. Salesman is a pushy little man and just an overall jerk. Dealer likes to blow off all warranty issues and tell us the only problem is the batteries. Time after time, they want to say bad batteries. The real bad thing is the Thomas dealer is only about 1 mile from us, so that's disappointing. The last batch of Blue Birds we got had terrible quality control. All 3 sped buses, all 3 had screws and large metal shavings in the tracks, missing screws, switches not hooked up, the list goes on. Most all of it was little stuff, but very annoying that you spend that kind of money for that kind of quality. Plus, our BB dealer is over 100 miles away, so we have to either take care of warranty stuff ourselves, which they always hassle us about reimbursement, or take it to a guy near us that is authorized BB warranty shop. They still hassle us about taking it to him also.
RonF, we have found that putting some silicone in the windshield gasket between the gasket and the body takes care of the leaking windshield issue. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 05:16:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RonF
The only issues we are having on our Birds are water leaks in above the windshield. The dealer can't find the leaks and now BlueBird is involved.
Humm, yeah..... That seems to be a problem that is stuck in a feedback loop. lol If anyone reads many of my posts, over the years. they know I favor BB. The main reason is the dealer. The other two don't have bad dealers, I just get better service from Bird. If I Bird ask me to list my top complaints of their product it would be the dog gone winds, first!! They used to make their windows in house. Then their tooling got to where they were going to have to remake them because of so many years of wear. So, they went outside source. In my opinion, worst mistake they ever made. The windows coming down on one side is just a pain and is like a nagging back ache. Not enough to stop everything but it's there making you wish you didn't have the problem. To round out my list of issue on Bird would be the leaks & paint. I think they all have these problems but they should still be engineered out of the product.
Besides the obvious problems with the other two buses, I have a issue with the way the rear part of the body is made. My shop is really too short for my bus length. So, I am constantly pulling in, closing the door and backing up to allow clearance in the front. With BB the way the back end is shaped you will contact with the tail lights first on the IC the visors over the 8-ways hit first. I have dents in the visors! Just one of those little things. lol |
Bryan |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 05:25:07 AM
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| I would go with whoever gives you the best customer service. In the last 3 years we've gone with BB and so far have had very little issues, unlike the POS IC's. To be fair though, we don't have any IC's with Cummins. BB customer service isn't that great, in fact International is better. We all know that there is no such thing as a perfect bus, but great customer service goes a long way if you buy a bus that turns out to be a POS. |
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torque
Advanced Member
Canada
358 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 07:00:05 AM
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The only issues we are having on our Birds are water leaks in above the windshield. The dealer can't find the leaks and now BlueBird is involved.
[/quote]
As Aaron says, plus I have found on some the sealer in the rain drip over the windshield looks good, but is usually broken away along the front edge. |
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FP Byrnes
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 08:03:19 AM
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Having some experience with the 3 big bus manufacturers IC definitely has issues...we have 17 with the MAXXFARCE...wow...really a problem child. Have gone through the entire fleet replacing the dog bones injectors, pucks etc in an attempt to prevent the inevitable failures. IC dealer here is pretty good but they kinda have to be due to the quality of the product. Bluebird...well...the craftsmanship out of the factory is pretty sketchy...poor routing of wire harnesses, fuel gauge problems ...windshield leaks..traction control systems...am/fm radios...driver seat belts...dash modules.. lots of quality control and design problems. The Old Birds are pretty bomb proof...the new ones..not so much.
Thomas Buses in my opinion are a better product...if you can get to the factory reps on the floor they are excellent at trouble shooting and getting answers to issues. The C2 has been really a good bus..the HDX pretty good as well. All of them have issues but for BB to manufacture only buses one would think they would be far superior...IC...well they keep trying..obviously the switch to Cummins should be a tremendous improvement but after all the problems they will not be getting any of our purchase business. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4545 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 08:08:05 AM
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Blue Bird claims there are major, major changes coming. One of the sales presentation slides said "We are ready to introduce more new products and innovation in the next 12 months than any other time in our history."
I'm hoping that means they are going back to the basics and getting back to the quality the bus used to be, not "Hey look, we changed the way the little heater louvers look!!!!" |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2017 : 05:12:33 AM
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I heard yesterday from one of our BB reps that they are going to slow production down in order to get back to the quality Blue Bird once had. I take this as a true statement knowing these gentlemen for while now. I think it also helps me getting information because my bus salesman lives 15 minutes from the Fort Valley plant, our outside sales rep and I both live 2 hours from the plant. If I could get off tomorrow, BB is put on a new product/vendor show along with a plant tour.
Update on the windshield leaking; My new bus, a 2018 Model year 54 passenger special needs vision:
Yesterday our warranty guy was here looking at an issue on the bus and since I sent a nasty email to my to BB reps, he and I decided to check the windshield seal to see if it leaks, yes indeed it does. It leaks on both sides where the large part meets the small side piece at the top. I also just so happens that my dealer received a TSI letter Tuesday on windshield leaks. So hopefully we are getting somewhere.
Additionally if you have any diagnostics or code readers and don't have a 2017 translator, your cable will not plug into the bus. You will need an adapter, BlueBird part number is 10049528, I was told it's about $60 bucks.
Big moral of the story is, if you are having trouble with your buses while they are under warranty, email your reps. or if your state has it, A superintendent's defect report on new buses. That goes straight to corporate BlueBird. I have done this in the past and I have had BlueBird design engineers and cummins engineers come to my shop and look at problems I have reported. So far I have seen 2 changes made to the 2018 visions we discussed. They changed the engine oil dipstick bracket, p clamp and mounting angle so the dipstick will stay in and they moved the power steering reservoir. It is now in front of the radiator. |
US Army retired CMBT |
Edited by - RonF on 01/26/2017 05:15:59 AM |
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Which bus would you buy ???
