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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2016 :  05:32:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Driver drove bus through the lights, buzzers, bells and whistles of coolant loss. Hose blew.
Codes set for critical overheating.
Now the bus starts hard and has white smoke from the exhaust.
When it runs it seems mostly smooth, no real miss.
Any hope of an egr cooler cracked?

DT466 2004 EGR

Cheers

JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2016 :  05:52:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most of the time if it runs too long with low water, especially if the water level gets below the EGR coolers it will burn a hole in them. If you're getting white smoke out the tail pipe more than likely it's the EGR cooler. In all my instances its been the EGR cooler.
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
148 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2016 :  9:50:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We call this the Steam engine effect. My money is that the EGR cooler has failed and leaking coolant. This could be the cause of your hard starting and white smoke. We have had buses with this engine drive 5 miles with no coolant in them and they are still going strong (after EGR cooler replacement).

International dealers have the testing adapters for sell to test for a leaking EGR cooler. This requires you to drain the coolant and remove the cooler to test. I have found it easier to remove the 3 bolts that hold the EGR crossover pipe to the front of the cooler and look inside the cooler. If the cooler is the least bit wet or tacky then the cooler is toast. When the Cooler leaks, coolant will travel into the EGR valve, Intake manifold and then into the cylinders. This could be part of your "white smoke" issue. When the engine is shut off and there pressure in the cooling system, coolant can and usually does leak into the EGR cooler and runs down into the exhaust manifold and then into the turbo. When you start the engine the hot exhaust gases will instantly boil any coolant in the exhaust system turning it into steam (white smoke). This can and most likely will cause major problems with the turbo in the future. I have changed several Turbos due to coolant sitting in the turbo corroding the surface of the VGT vanes and rings. So do not be surprised if you have turbo issues later on. You can often stand behind a bus that is having smoke issues and see if you can smell the coolant in the air near the exhaust pipe.

International has a procedure to bleed out the cooling system after the cooler has been replaced on the 2004 EGR engine. They recommend that you unplug the EGR valve / motor, remove the plug on top of the Coolant crossover tube to bleed out all air reinstall and then run the engine up to operating temperature. This will purge out the air from the EGR cooler and cooling system while not letting hot exhaust to travel thru the cooler and boiling any coolant due to air pockets. We usually run them at 1500 rpm for 30 minuets. After the engine cools down we reconnect the EGR / motor and clear all DTC's caused by this procedure and top off coolant.

Depending if the cooler is the original cooler or a replacement and what engine serial number you have you will need to replace both the inlet and out let cooling tubes and hose. The new designed cooler has been pretty good. We have only had 2 of them go bad so far out of nearly 20 coolers. Does your bus have a low coolant level sensor installed in the surge tank? Our 2005 FE buses had the sensors installed but the ECM was never programmed for them. We had to reprogram the parameters for this as well as add coolant level sensors on our RE buses. There is a Iknow article on this. We also have noticed that our coolant temp gauges stop at 210 deg and do not move up to the red area till it is well past the critical temp level. In addition we have had the OIL/WATER light on the instrument panel go bad and then the drivers dont know when there is a over heating / loss of coolant issue. If you have the oil/water light remember that 99.9% of the time the light comes on its for water issues (low coolant or high temp) since the engine does not run when there is a loss of oil pressure.

As you all can tell I have spent way to much time working on the cooling system of these great engines. LOL Hope this info helps.

Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2016 :  07:27:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Original cooler, I have new parts ordered and there was coolant in the cooler and also running from the intake and turbo.
I have the Navistar coolant exchanger and will pull the bleed plug for sure.

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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2016 :  07:29:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And after reviewing video, the driver did everything by the book. The afternoon tech had her drive it back to the shop rather than shutting down.

Thanks Joe and 57fan.
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
148 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2016 :  6:48:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since you have coolant coming out of the Turbo I would take it apart and clean it and look for pitting / buildup. You can take it apart and not remove the Turbine housing off the exhaust manifold. Pretty straight forward. Is this on a FE, CE or RE?

Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2016 :  04:20:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CE
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2016 :  10:15:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New EGR cooler, fresh oil and coolant.
Failed the AMT. Cleaned the turbo and EGR valve, all good. Goes back on the route today.

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