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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2016 : 08:28:35 AM
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Edited by - 04IC#14 on 08/01/2016 10:31:09 AM
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g0ttadrift
Advanced Member
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 12:32:57 PM
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| I have no experience with propane buses, but I like to keep educating myself. So thanks for posting the review, it was nice to read. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2016 : 06:41:59 AM
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| Yes, definitely keep posting about this! There aren't many IC propanes out there so I'd say it'll be the next year or two before someone is in the same position as you. Also, you might go into more detail about your bus route. Things like number of stops, hilly or flat, distance between stops, etc. Again, I'm really interested in what you have to say! |
Bryan |
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exmod110
Senior Member
150 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2016 : 06:42:25 AM
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| I think there is a reflash for the ford trans shifting. I know of one division that said that they would almost never get or stay in high gear.. reflash changed that and they are much happier now... the V10 does like to rev to make power. |
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eshover
Senior Member
146 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2016 : 09:39:47 AM
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There is a reflash to change shift points. At a meeting a couple of weeks ago some schools here in Iowa had it done and said they were very pleased with it as It did not rev nearly as high as before. See your local dealer and they will be able to answer any question.
ED |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2016 : 1:45:44 PM
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| Just heard where Blue Bird & Ford has issued a bulletin that says to use 5w30 engine oil instead of 5w20. I have already been doing this at about 20k miles, using synthetic. I guess there have been several v10s let go with less than 10k miles on them. I just heard all of this yesterday, so not sure about any of it. |
Bryan |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2016 : 12:57:41 PM
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Brandon
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Edited by - 04IC#14 on 08/01/2016 10:32:42 AM |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 03:53:12 AM
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| The red warning lights should not come on when you open the door unless the ambers have been activated. Some thing isn't programmed correctly. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 07:19:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RonF
The red warning lights should not come on when you open the door unless the ambers have been activated. Some thing isn't programmed correctly.
Yeah, that's been an option for over 23 years that I know of. Even back to the old Weldon units that were used.
As for the low end torque; I'm really curious as to how they get that at such low RPMs. I've been through a class on the Thomas propane but not an IC. Hope I get the opportunity in the future. |
Bryan |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 09:52:07 AM
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Warning lights: Sequential vs. Non-Sequential...your state SHOULD specify which you are to have, and the buses that aren't correct should be made right.
The IC's are changed with Diamond Logic Builder, I think it's just a checkbox (if they turn out to be the incorrect ones). Not sure how Bird's get changed since they switched to using BCM's (if they turn out to be the incorrect ones). |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 10:27:49 AM
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| I was told to no longer add to this thread so I'll be deleting all my comments, my apologies to those affected. |
Brandon
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Edited by - 04IC#14 on 08/01/2016 10:33:51 AM |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 10:44:41 AM
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| We can delete the entire thing if you'd like. |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 11:16:43 AM
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| Thank you for the offer, I think this will be ok. Even though there were no district names or dealer names mentioned it got back to the bus garage that this caused hard feelings so I'm not going to post anymore about it. Again, my apologies for any strife that was caused. If it came across that I was brand bashing that was not my intent. |
Brandon
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Edited by - 04IC#14 on 08/01/2016 11:17:36 AM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 1:09:58 PM
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| There is no way you were brand bashing!! I believe whomever told you to stop posting has another objection. I would like to know how these things are performing and so would everyone else on here!! Please ask them to reconsider! |
Bryan |
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eshover
Senior Member
146 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 1:10:30 PM
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To me it sounded as though you were being upfront and honest about your observations. We all need to see this to make intelligent decisions about purchases that will work for our schools.
ED |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 1:14:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by eshover
To me it sounded as though you were being upfront and honest about your observations. We all need to see this to make intelligent decisions about purchases that will work for our schools.
ED
Absolutely!! If more people weren't afraid to give their opinion, I believe we'd have a much better industry! Maybe even safer, if that's even possible! |
Bryan |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 1:26:22 PM
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| Ed and Bryan, I'd be happy to contact you through email or other means if you like! |
Brandon
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 2:50:37 PM
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God forbid an honest opinion get posted in public...the bus makers get all butt hurt over it.
I feel your pain as I dealt with it when a new bus came out around 2003 or so and I tore it down pretty badly. Rather than explain their side publicly, they just tried to get it taken down via my boss. I did all my posting on my own time since we didn't have the net at work...those threads are still here. I'm posting from my living room right now, just saying.
Bus makers and distrbutors: membership here is free...join and give us your side of things instead of crying in your coffee. I promise I'll be civil, most guys here will too.
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krmvcs
Advanced Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 3:02:18 PM
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| ditto the above. |
-Ken- |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 04:43:54 AM
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| I'm all about tell our sales reps the problems and issues and just what I think of their buses. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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black
Active Member
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 10:25:11 AM
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| I thought I read the original post and I don't remember anything that stood out that 04IC#14 said that could be construed as really negative. Did I miss something? |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 10:48:42 AM
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The only thing I remember that could be counted negative was that one had weird heaters and it was cold.
That's (probably) the specs of the guy ordering it...MAYBE the dealer....certainly not the bus maker. |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 1:25:44 PM
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| It was ordered with those heaters, that was no fault of the dealer. It was a trial thing, some people would absolutely love them, others may not. I was merely sharing my thoughts and opinions and they in no way reflected what any other school personnel thought of them. I didn't mean for it to come across as saying it was a bad design or anyone's fault, just my personal opinion. Out of respect for our mechanic who was affected by this I won't be posting anymore particulars about these two buses. I would however be happy to correspond through email with anyone interested as long as it's not in a public forum setting. I hope you all understand. |
Brandon
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Edited by - 04IC#14 on 08/02/2016 3:47:39 PM |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 5:56:06 PM
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| Unfortunately this is the way this business works.. it's not healthy for the enthusiastic individual, at all. I despise the way it is and try to be as open to discussion as possible with my staff and anybody who shows an interest. There are MANY people in this 'world' that are miserable beyond belief and don't want to take the opportunity to allow people to think differently than they do. God forbid someone speak their mind about something, especially in busing. |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 6:57:06 PM
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Why would any school transportation department give a rats ass what a bus maker, or bus dealership, thinks of them?
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torque
Advanced Member
Canada
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 05:05:03 AM
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"it got back to the bus garage that this caused hard feelings"
Awwwwww, poor things. snif snif. They would all be crying if they had to deal with me LOL.
I agree with every one else, nothing came across as bashing or put down, just your observations.
Thanks
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 05:19:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 04IC#14
It was ordered with those heaters, that was no fault of the dealer. It was a trial thing, some people would absolutely love them, others may not. I was merely sharing my thoughts and opinions and they in no way reflected what any other school personnel thought of them. I didn't mean for it to come across as saying it was a bad design or anyone's fault, just my personal opinion. Out of respect for our mechanic who was affected by this I won't be posting anymore particulars about these two buses. I would however be happy to correspond through email with anyone interested as long as it's not in a public forum setting. I hope you all understand.
Oh I didn't take it that way. I have a few options out on my lot right now that now I wish I hadn't gotten. It never hurts to try something, the only problem is it takes us 15-20 years to get rid of it! |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 05:36:44 AM
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| As someone who's district does not run propane, I enjoyed reading the original post, and other posts like it. It gives some good insight for first hand experience, and in this group, I think thats the kind of stuff we look for. Any sales rep from any company can come in and talk up their product and make it out to the greatest thing in the world, but until you have actual experience with it, you don't truly know what you're getting in to. We need this kind of feedback when it comes to looking at new buses!! |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 07:29:41 AM
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| I agree, I was hoping this would end up being a very informative thread that people could share their opinions and experiences with both buses. There's going to be people who swear by bb and people who would swear by IC. To me that's the cool part. Like I had mentioned before, I'd be happy to correspond through email with anyone who has any questions. I'm not sure if there's a way to exchange email addresses other than having to post them in a thread, but I'd be more than happy to share with anyone what I know about these two buses. |
Brandon
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 09:06:21 AM
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Brandon, I have shared my email with many. Just don't put it out for me to get lots of spam. I'll leave it up for a few hours and then take it down. (just don't like it hanging out there) Anyone can ask me about my experience with propane. I do understand what you're going through. If it weren't for our current super I wouldn't be posting as much as I am. I am pretty well versed in how to keep the stuff off here that the school doesn't want to share as well. I try not to share pricing and things like that. However, all that is public knowledge anyway, lol.
On the swear at, I mean by, these particular buses...... Everyone knows there's no love lost between me and the IC machine. However, I am very interested in the new engine. I may be able to live with another IC if this thing does what they are talking about. My only issue is that these are low production engines with very little service time to prove themselves. They could very well be the best thing out there but I hate to find out with our little fleet. Ford has millions of the V10s out there and they pretty well know what's good and what's bad on them. Plus many people (in our local areas) have experience working on them.
Just my two cents! Time will tell!! |
Bryan |
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04IC#14
Senior Member
United States
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 10:09:20 AM
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| Got it, thanks Bryan. Yes it will be interesting to see how that engine works out! |
Brandon
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 10:26:20 AM
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I have driven both the Thomas and IC propane offerings.
To me the IC felt like a Cummins with less noise, I would think it would be great in a mixed fleet of diesel and LP.
The Thomas just sounded and felt like a big block gas V8 to me, It just made me wonder if I could trust some of my heavier foot drivers to not always drive it like they were heading to cruise night at the local drive in. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 06:56:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
I have driven both the Thomas and IC propane offerings.
To me the IC felt like a Cummins with less noise, I would think it would be great in a mixed fleet of diesel and LP.
The Thomas just sounded and felt like a big block gas V8 to me, It just made me wonder if I could trust some of my heavier foot drivers to not always drive it like they were heading to cruise night at the local drive in.
It is tempting to punch it on these propanes! Not sure on the thomas but on a bb with the new shift logic it takes away that (what sounds like over rev) away. |
Bryan |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2016 : 06:08:20 AM
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Is there an "econ" setting/switch? That might help control the shift points to stop high rpm's.
quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
I have driven both the Thomas and IC propane offerings.
To me the IC felt like a Cummins with less noise, I would think it would be great in a mixed fleet of diesel and LP.
The Thomas just sounded and felt like a big block gas V8 to me, It just made me wonder if I could trust some of my heavier foot drivers to not always drive it like they were heading to cruise night at the local drive in.
It is tempting to punch it on these propanes! Not sure on the thomas but on a bb with the new shift logic it takes away that (what sounds like over rev) away.
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2016 : 09:51:30 AM
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| Not on the BBs to my knowledge. It's either the power option or economy. |
Bryan |
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Topic |
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The battle of the propanes.....IC vs BB
