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krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2016 :  11:22:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
any of you on here check out this article?
as professionals in this industry what do you all think?
i already put in my $.02 at the bottom.

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/news/713717/iowa-district-contracts-out-school-bus-service

aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2016 :  12:13:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From the mechanic POV, what I have seen from contracted buses is absolute garbage. Their bottom line is the dollar. There are ridiculous fixes that are made, just to save a few pennies. Now I'm sure not every contracted system is like this, but the ones I've seen in my neck of the woods are pretty shameful.
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krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2016 :  12:41:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
one of my drivers went to a contract school bus service part time. he came back and apologized for ever giving me a hard time about decisions i made prioritizing repairs. their buses had multiple lights out, dash gauges non functional, various driveability complaints etc. lots of things not "technically" failing a pre-trip inspection but not ok in my book.

-Ken-
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2016 :  1:09:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And thats a lot of what I've seen. Seat cushions that are nothing but duct tape, but according to rules and regs, the foam is there so it's good. I don't agree with going to contract services. I'm sure there's instances where it makes sense, but for where I'm at, it would be a huge disservice to the community.
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2016 :  04:19:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I also think worth mentioning is the quality of the drivers. Our district drivers are trained far better than contracted drivers. We've hired former contract drivers and they are shocked at the training they are given before they take on one of our routes. Our drivers do more than just drive a bus and they are well compensated for the job they do, we are the highest paying district in the metroplex.
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2016 :  05:17:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I second what Joe said. We've had the same thing happen in our district when hiring in contract drivers.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2016 :  05:51:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Illinois the reason contractors have an upper hand and can do it cheaper than district owned is they get some tax cuts that make up the difference. I am not well versed in any of this but this is what I have been told. As for safety, lol, I'm seeing my state man here in about 10 minutes and he wouldn't let any of that garbage by. He wrote me up for a heater motor that was making a squealing noise.

Bryan
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2016 :  07:57:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I talked to my state guy and he says the reason these thing get by (in Illinois anyway) is because they are short handed. He knows the places that need to be visited more often and they do that but there are still things getting through because they can't be everywhere. That should be taken care of because the contractor/ district wants to do a good job (my words).

Bryan
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2016 :  07:39:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here in Ontario Canada the majority of school buses are on contract with school boards, very few are run by the board. We have good operators and bad operators. When I first started in this trade close to 40 years ago I was a by the book mechanic. But I have always had an open mind and wanting to learn, watching the guys that in the beginning I thought were cutting corners by the way I was taught and believed to be correct, and found that some by the book things were overkill and I bet if you were to follow the trail back you would find it was a parts manufacturer that came up with some of the rules to increase their sales. Myself and the others I current have working here take pride in our work. We are required by law to inspect each unit every six months, we inspect each unit every 3 months. Ya, we have some duct tape (actually seat tape :) on some units that the shop or the driver may put on as we don't pull a unit off a run for a rip in a seat and is usually replaced at next inspection. If a drivers lives and their run is half an hour away, we don't bring them in to change one clearance light when the days are long and the unit is not even on the road in the dark. Saving fuel, drivers time, mechanics time. We for the most part follow NCS 11b with some additional regulations from the province and CSA D250. The ministry inspectors will check a sample number of units once or twice a year. They are usually very reasonable, do not read into what is said in the regulations. The odd time the inspector will misinterpret a regulation and may write us up but we then challenge it. If it says a heater must work in each setting, that is all they check for so a noisy heater motor would pass :). But of course we would change it so the driver can keep their sanity.
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2016 :  12:32:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is perhaps one of the best answers to the question of contracting. The difference I see though, is that in Ontario, most districts are contracted, where as here in the states, it seems to be very hit and miss. It seems as if Torque's crew takes pride in what they do. The mentioning of duct tape was not a shot at anyone that has to use it. The shot I was taking was directed at those who have entire seat cushions made of duct tape. Very well said Torque!!
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  05:30:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know many of you aren't going to agree with this statement but the problem is management. The condition and safety of a school bus in a district or contract fleet is entirely up to management. They have sole control of what is spent on them and the attitude of the individuals making the repairs and driving them. If the manager is a horse's patoot then it will be very difficult to do a good job in your responsibilities. Likewise, if the manger is a "nice guy" and doesn't take care of calling out a problem employee then there will be problems as well. Just my two cents from that angle.

Bryan
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  05:35:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the opposite story. Going from contracting to district run. http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/news/713880/district-brings-school-bus-service-in-house-names-transportation-director?utm_campaign=Newsline-Thursday-New-20160616&utm_source=Email&utm_medium=Enewsletter

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  05:43:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Likewise, if the manger is a "nice guy" and doesn't take care of calling out a problem employee then there will be problems as well.



Trouble there is that with such a critical shortage of drivers and other staff nationwide, they have the upper hand and the are very aware of that fact.

I wish I could go back to the days of having 1 sub...those look like the good old days now.
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  05:51:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can definitely agree with that statement Bryan. My opinion though, is that with contractors, a lot of it starts at the very top and trickles down. From Torque's statement, there probably are some very good contracted operations out there. I know one mechanic/shop foreman that works for First Student, and he is very passionate about his job. He wants the job done right and done right the first time. He is a pretty intelligent guy, but every time I talk to him, his biggest gripe is the management. He pretty much has to get approval for every penny spent. So while he wants things done the correct way, he is often times limited to doing the bare necessities to keep the vehicle in compliance. But, the person managing his facility gets that attitude from the higher ups.

And the article was interesting. You don't see this happen as often as a district going to contracted services. I'm sure it will be a struggle for the first year, but hopefully over the next few years they can transition into something that works well.
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exmod110
Senior Member

150 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  06:47:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit exmod110's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any time you run a "for profit" organization the bottom line seams to be getting hammered first, profit margin and bonus's last.
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krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2016 :  09:06:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my main point was that when a profit motive is introduced safety and reliability can suffer. secondly, if the state is already spending money to get the job done, why would they spend more money having a company do it rather than keeping it 'in house'? i run transportation for a private school and we charge parents for bus service. any money left in my budget at the end of the year goes to a general fund for campus improvements. part of what we do is inspect and repair/replace BEFORE a failure as much as we can without being fortune tellers. nobody likes service interruptions and road calls. when we inspect a bus and hear chatter in a diff lets say, and recommend replacement and get shot down because a manager says "well it still works right? lets replace it when it fails." company saves money. maybe it fails on the road and maybe it doesnt. point is we do these things to make sure they dont fail because our bottom line is safety and reliability, not profit.

-Ken-
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seyster7
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2016 :  08:47:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit seyster7's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm a relatively new driver, but from what I have read, experienced, and been shared, outsourcing isn't the best solution for everyone. Where I work is an in-district transportation, however a neighboring district (where I grew up) outsources. We have several drivers who came from the outsourced company and one said that it took a year to get a heater fixed because they had so many hoops to jump thru to get it done. Not only were there many hoops, they also said that half the time, the replacement part wasn't made for the specific bus/unit... doesn't add up! Where I work, I had a heater that blew a fuse that was fixed in 2 days! Everyone's situation is different, but when I was looking to start driving, I wanted to be somewhere that still had in-house transportation and I am very grateful I did. We have almost the same buses as the outsourced ones down the street, however our oldest buses still look brand new compared to the company's that are 5-6 years old. I have also heard of districts who were quick to outsource bring transportation back in-house with a new fleet because they realized it was cheaper or the company bids were too high. My 2 cents for anyone interested.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2016 :  04:56:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i work for a private company and there are no loop ho;es or hoops i have to jump thru to get things fixed we do our services on our buses every 5000 miles if there is any problems or concerns they are addressed right then and there if a driver comes in with a blower not workin on lets say low speed it gets takin care of right then and here the hole on the seat thing if its a small hole an piece of duck tape will be used if its more then one hole the cover will be changed the owner is all about clean and safe the buses get washed and cleaned everyday and seatbelts checked but i do no people in other companys there are the complete oposite so in my opinion it saftly and motivation of the employees starts with the ownership in a private company
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2016 :  06:01:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our neighboring county, (Savannah, Georgia) Has been through Laidlaw, First Student, and MV Reliant in the past 12 years. They have always been on the news about late buses, broken down buses, ect. Beginning this school year, they will be running their own transportation services. I know a few of the technicians that work their and it was always about the bottom line. There were a lot of repairs that were not done that should have been. I was told that last June, DOT put 78% of the buses out of service. I was told they had ordered somewhere around 400 sets of brake shoes and drums.

US Army retired CMBT
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member

533 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2016 :  11:30:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit 08 Thomas EF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My town fleet of about 25 buses has been private since the beginning. For several years, they struggled to keep money in the budget to replace aging buses, and maintenance and reliability became an issue especially as the high concentration of the fleet that ranged in model years from 1997-2002 started to get tired. Now we've been getting buses more regularly and the fleet's in better shape, but we've had a driver shortage for several years and it's really causing problems now. Not to mention the transportation director (who wasn't well-liked by her coworkers) and her husband who also drove moved cross-country, and a few other drivers are retiring this year as well.

The idea of outsourcing has come up several times, and time and time again our former superintendent found that the money figures were in the favor of staying private. However, I'm not sure if it started to make financial sense or the driver shortage made this decision, but our new superintendent as of a few months ago has decided to outsource with Dattco this coming year.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Not sure how good of a company Dattco is (they have been our International dealer for some time) and how well-managed the fleet will be. But the biggest problem that I just can't see getting solved is the driver shortage. This is a rural community and a driver can only commute so long to get here. The local population of bus drivers is saturated. The only difference will be that it'll be someone else's problem who doesn't work for the district to deal with. And we'll still be paying for new buses through the contract, and management's salaries.

Just thought I'd give y'all some insight on our circumstances.
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