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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  10:10:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have this 06 international ce all the lights work on the bus but the light monitor for the most part doesnt the school lights amber and red they work on the monitor but everything else does not no turn signals no reverse light not brake or tail lights does anyone have a diagram for the wiring on the monitor????

dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  12:25:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok i found corrostion on the fuse block that powers up the monitor so now everything works except for the rear tail lights any idea how the tail lights run threw the monitor all the tail lights work but they dont work on the monitor
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  3:27:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do a regprogram of the monitor. Start bus and ensure alternator is charging, let idle for a couple minutes.
Turn on headlights/marker lights, hazards, amber flashers.

If Doran brand, use a paperclip to push the program button through the tiny hole near the bottom left.

If Soundoff brand you'll need to remove from the mounting and push the program button on the back.

It'll need you to switch the ambers to red, push the brake pedal and put into reverse when it gets to those lights.

If memory serves, the Doran lights shut off when programmed and the Soundoff lights stay on. Shut off bus, restart, recheck.

***I've had several Dorans of this vintage go bad and refuse to reprogram. My advice is to buy soundoff if that's the case...direct drop in replacement for a lot less money.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  06:40:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it has a soundoff monitor i did the reprogram everything worked until i got to the marker lights they wouldnt go out do u no which wires is the marker lights and where does it come from
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  06:42:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
how does the circuit work does it go switch relay tail light monitor? because the lights are workin they just dont show on the monitor
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  07:00:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The circuit runs through the monitor, literally. The monitor just measures the current and takes note of when it's moving and when it stops.

Now if someone has rewired things...that would mess up your day!

Got another bus you can swap monitors with?
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  07:50:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i tried the swap and that didnt work thats y i am trying to figure out where the power comes from when the lights turn on cause like i said the lights work and so does the wire come right from the tail light into the monitor
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  07:54:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i found the feed wire coming into monitor its a brown wire marked 84 it shows 1.2v when i turn lights on does anyone no where that wire goes to the switch? the relay? and also the 3amp fuse on the back of monitor show 1.5v with the light feed wire disconnected
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  09:06:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
does anyone have a wiring diagram for the tail lights and light monitor
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  11:12:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Only 1.2 vcd yet the exterior lights are working? That's a good one.

Wish I could help with your bus' wiring...my CE's are only a year old and they made a lot of changes to them compared to an 06.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  11:19:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not familiar with these, checked my diagrams and none list the monitor.
Could there have been a previous problem and someone bypassed the module earlier?
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  12:18:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i dont think its been tampered with havent had any issues in the past i mean when lights where out it showed that on monitor but it came in shop with the monitor not working at all and i found the main power to monitor only had 3v so i traced it to the circuit breaker i changed it and the monitor worked i did the reprogramm and it would not do the tail lights so now everything is workin correct but no tail lights if i could find out where the tail light feed goes either to switch or relay or computer that would help alot cant find a brown wire marked 84 anywhere
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2016 :  1:55:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Possibly dumb questions, from what I gather, the tail lights on the bus do turn on with the switch, just the light monitor does not show them as on?

These light monitors, they will pick up both the tail light and stop light in the same light?

I'll try and dig around some more tomorrow for a diagram.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2016 :  06:29:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the monitor has four spots the top two show brake light and the bottom two show tail lights and yes all the lights work fine it just doesnt show the tail lights are on in the monitor when i hit brake its shows that but no tails thank u so much for helpng my inspections are next week gotta get this figured out
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2016 :  09:08:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This might be the document you want,S08291.pdf page 247. This is not my link, not sure if it works as we are blocked from places like that and could not try it. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll see if i can find another way.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2016 :  09:14:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh boy, its hot here LOL, forgot the link and SBF's flood control blocked me, I'll try this again
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tptdwfg84n1okzm/S08291.pdf?dl=0
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2016 :  09:29:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah i tried to open that and it didnt work couple more hours and three day weekend woooohoooo
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bfaulkner
Senior Member

168 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2016 :  2:13:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit bfaulkner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can not remember and I cant find any information on it but I remember fixing this same problem on mine for a few years. We would wire in a resistor between the output and ground to cause it to rear proper voltage. By any chance have you witched over to LED tail lights from incandescent?

We did this for a while before just letting the tail light second do whatever it wants. In Michigan it is only required to have the overheads work. Tomorrow I will pull off a few monitors to find an old repair. Then I can maybe help you.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2016 :  12:48:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no i didnt switch to leds u are sayin to put a resistor on the ground or the input of the tail lights we are doing inspections now so i am tryin to deal with that and jumping back the this problem thanks for the help i really appricate it
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bfaulkner
Senior Member

168 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2016 :  2:25:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit bfaulkner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can not tell you the size of the resistor, I'm sorry. I think they were 1000 ohm. What we did was splice the resistor between the outside taillight wire and the outside ground wire. on this bus we used red jumper wired to jump the tail lights together through the resistors then tied into the ground. It is the bottom two outside brown wires to the (looking from behind) left outside second from the bottom white ground.

http://imgur.com/yttiXOg
http://imgur.com/Prengwr
http://imgur.com/lXtOh4K

I hope this helps, it worked well for us until we stopped because its a pain to do.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2016 :  07:57:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By the voltages you posted, it sounds like the tail lights have been bypassed from the module if the tail lights are lighting up when turned on, and the monitor works by the power going through the module to the light measuring the current. 1.2 volts isn't enough to light up an incandescent bulb.

I cant make out the colors on the resistor to find the value. But there are many resistor calculators on the internet, you just put in the colors to find the ohms.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2016 :  08:51:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sry guys i am not completely fallowin u there are three brown wires on powers up when i turn lights on but only shows 1.2v that plugs into the monitor then two brown wires come out of module and go to one left tail and one right tail i dont see how u have it connevt to module if i understand right u jumped the tails to the ground with a resistor?
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2016 :  07:49:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The resistors are only if you have changed to LEDs, but you have not so it should not be needed. But yes, you put the resistor to ground to create more load so the monitor can see it since LEDs do not draw enough current for the monitor to see.

Back to your issue, you say you swapped monitors and the problem was the same. Check a bus that is working correctly, see what input and output you have there and compare to the problem bus, then concentrate on the problem wiring.

If I was you, I would concentrate on your inspections, get them done so you have more think power for this :) Sometimes just walking away for a bit helps.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2016 :  10:59:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i wish i could leave it for after inspection but it will fail inspection if it doesnt work but i just checked my voltages and i have 12v at brown wire when lights are on and it shows 8volts at the three amp fuse an the left and right tail light wires so i have power going into the monitor when the lights are on but losing it either threw the monitor or lights in rear uggg good thing i dont have much hair cause i woulda pulled it out by now
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2016 :  1:38:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is this 3 amp fuse on the module itself? If so I would have to say the module is defective. Somewhere between power in, and the fuse you are loosing 4V.
When you swapped modules earlier, did you calibrate,reprogram it?
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2016 :  2:47:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes the three amp fuse is on the module itself and I don't remember if I did the reprogram when I swapped them but I have a bran new one going to put that one in and program it an see what happens will do that monday
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2016 :  08:09:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok i swapped monitor out with a brand new one did the reprogram everything programs good until i get to tail lights the dont go out while in program mode also i did notice the the battery light on the monitor never comes on i checked in another bus and that light comes on with keo on engine off and goes out when u start bus but on the problem bus it never comes on i really wish i could get a wiring diagram for this
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2016 :  08:38:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Checked the IC diagram, they do not show the module itself just the following "to light module". 83 BRN goes to the LH tail light, by the diagram, they only go to the 4" Stop/tail/license light, not the 7". 84 BRN does the same on the right side. I'll see if I can find the module itself or inputs to the light module.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2016 :  09:49:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, it is almost clear like mud :)
Tail light feed leave the system controller on A58 BRN, position H goes to lamp monitor module 83BRN on pin7 junction JD, leaves on pin 8, 84 BRN to left tail. Leaves on Junction JC pin 7 84 BRN to RH tail.
My guess, there was a problem with 4" tail lights and someone jumped them from the 7" tail lights. There should be individual wires going to each of the 4" which are monitored, the 2 7" should be wired together and are not monitored. But watch they are still numbered 83 BRN and 84 BRN, they are spliced off at J7 and J8
If so, then you would have to find the fault:)

You should also have Junction JD PIN 4 BLK 17 12v pos from fuse 9 7.5a. Pin 6 junction JD 17 wht should be ground.

Hope you can make sense of that. If not, do a search on S08291.pdf and see what you come up with, I can not post it, sorry.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  05:16:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok i think i understand that i am planin to work on it tomarrow so will let u no how i make out i did figure out the only monitor the small tail lights so am thinkin someone jumped them but again will check tomarrow thanks so much for the help
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  09:45:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Opps, just caught a mistake, the wires leaving the module, 83 goes to left, and 84 go to right. I tried to be careful but it was getting late.
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  11:45:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah i actually just startedworkin on it i pulled the tail lights out and pulled wiring out the tails where jumped together i did find an 83 wire i hooked that up to the small light and it turned on on the monitor the right side also had another wire in there number 84 i hooked that up and the right side doesnt work
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  12:15:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok i got everything wired right now but now when i turn lights on the to big tails come on the little ones do not come on the wire coming from contoller shows 11v o and its not a brn83 its a brn 84 anyway if i remove the controller wire and apply 12v to monitor basically makin like my own switch the lights come on and everything works ok so mot sure y it wont turn on with controller wire
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dsalinas1939
Top Member

USA
1316 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  12:27:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
o does it tell u where those juntions are between the controller and the monitor also the controller is that the body module behind the heater box on right side of dash
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  1:35:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll try and check that out tomorrow.
Interesting, the same wire that goes to the module is the one that feeds the 2 7"
my **guess** would be one of the connectors in the side panel, along the bottom and along the top (top one you have to access from under the switch panel). The diagram shows a wire splicing off at a connector J7, the other side of the connector goes to the light monitor. So the problem likely is in this connector. There will be 2 wires on one side, and one on the other. So until I get a chance to look at the diagrams, I would just check them all as it is not uncommon for the pins to come loose or the connector come apart.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2016 :  3:47:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All it says is "LH body to front cap" It is a 15 pin rectangular connector.
Pin 1, BRN 83 on one side, BRN 83, BRN 84 on the other side
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