School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 Propane Buses
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

RBrian
Senior Member

United States
71 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2016 :  05:18:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit RBrian's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

quote:
Originally posted by RBrian

We buy 300 gallon totes for $564. Thats $1.88 a gallon. We used 2,800 gallons last year.



I thought the totes were 330 gallons.


They are 330 gallon totes with 300 gallons of DEF in them. Room for expansion.
Go to Top of Page

BigPapa
Advanced Member

215 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2016 :  06:53:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit BigPapa's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We buy in bulk, $1.54/Gallon.
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2016 :  08:47:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This was filmed a couple months ago. I thought FS did a good job of editing.
Hope you enjoy it.



Shill.

Very nice video & info!
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2016 :  2:19:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This was filmed a couple months ago. I thought FS did a good job of editing.
Hope you enjoy it.



Shill.

Very nice video & info!



What? You know I'm not a Shill!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2016 :  09:14:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I'm picking on you, I'm leaving somebody else alone.

A nearby school is expecting the state's first IC propane bus any day now (if not already there). Looking forward to seeing under the hood on that one.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2016 :  10:11:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I would like to see one too. They were a cool 10k more on their bid than the BB we bought in November. I am interested in them because they are a low speed engine. I have a tough time figuring out how they can get the HP and torque they need with an engine that runs in the same RPM range as a diesel.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

steveolboy
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2016 :  11:23:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit steveolboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The totes are not all the same size/capacity. Just one more variable to crunch numbers against.
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2016 :  3:02:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
L.P engine comparison...from IC

http://www.icbus.com/assets/pdf/propane/F40215_Bus_DealerToolkit_EngineComparison_FINAL.pdf

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2016 :  07:50:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

L.P engine comparison...from IC

http://www.icbus.com/assets/pdf/propane/F40215_Bus_DealerToolkit_EngineComparison_FINAL.pdf



I've see this before. I still don't understand how they get these numbers at such low RPMs

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  05:52:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Larger displacement, bigger bore and longer stroke, cam profiles, and higher compression ratio are ways to increase torque.

I'd much rather have a large displacement, low rpm engine for severe service such as a school bus application.
Go to Top of Page

JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  06:16:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
IC can't get medium duty diesel engines right, how can they be any better in propane?
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  08:58:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1

IC can't get medium duty diesel engines right, how can they be any better in propane?



LOL, not that I want to come to IC's defence here but prior to the EPA mandated engines International did a super job of building engines. Propane engines are simple enough that I believe the same tried and true methods will work with them. The other factor is that an outside company is the one that is really building the thing anyway.

I'm really interested in seeing this thing. I too believe that a slower RPM engine will be a plus. Not that I'm having trouble with my current units, it's just unnerving to listen to them rap out as tight as they do. lol

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

JRob
Advanced Member

207 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  09:00:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
severe service such as a school bus application


Thread hijack but this works into this discussion. What makes the school bus application severe? What characteristics of the school bus duty cycle contribute to this perception?
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  09:32:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mostly stop and go. If you read any owner's manual the "severe duty" service intervals are explained. I have it in my mind that the main thing is the spool up and down of the engine all the time. A school bus is a lot like a garbage truck in that aspect. To steer us back to the topic (not that it matters, lol), this is the reason I think a propane engine will last as long or longer in our application. A diesel was never intended to be used in an application like ours. It was intended to be used on gen sets, ships, tractors, over the road trucks, etc. Of course, these are all my opinions. I'm sure there are others here that can, and probably will, disagree with me.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  09:34:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

LOL, not that I want to come to IC's defence here but prior to the EPA mandated engines International did a super job of building engines. Propane engines are simple enough that I believe the same tried and true methods will work with them. The other factor is that an outside company is the one that is really building the thing anyway.

I'm really interested in seeing this thing. I too believe that a slower RPM engine will be a plus. Not that I'm having trouble with my current units, it's just unnerving to listen to them rap out as tight as they do. lol



You hit the nail on the head Bryan, EPA!
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2016 :  09:39:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

LOL, not that I want to come to IC's defence here but prior to the EPA mandated engines International did a super job of building engines. Propane engines are simple enough that I believe the same tried and true methods will work with them. The other factor is that an outside company is the one that is really building the thing anyway.

I'm really interested in seeing this thing. I too believe that a slower RPM engine will be a plus. Not that I'm having trouble with my current units, it's just unnerving to listen to them rap out as tight as they do. lol



You hit the nail on the head Bryan, EPA!



Thus the reason for my fascination with propane. There are no add ons on the engine to make it clean. It's just an engine!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

RBrian
Senior Member

United States
71 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  04:29:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit RBrian's Homepage  Reply with Quote
FYI-In case you didn't know. IHC doesn't manufacture the engine. Power Solutions International does.
Go to Top of Page

JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  05:49:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RBrian

FYI-In case you didn't know. IHC doesn't manufacture the engine. Power Solutions International does.



That my be but International probably designs it.
Go to Top of Page

flint1
Senior Member

Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  06:06:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The PSI propane engine is based off the GM 8.1L big block engine, bored and stroked. Just spoke with my IC rep, they have ordered a gasoline powered CE with the GM 8.1L. I'll be taking that for a demo.
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  08:01:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Both the Thomas and IC propane engines definitely look like big block Chevy truck engines. I have driven the Thomas.....

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 01/13/2016 08:04:07 AM
Go to Top of Page

JoeHEB1
Advanced Member

498 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  08:54:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit JoeHEB1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We have 9 birds and use 4 drums a year at $150 per drum.
Go to Top of Page

flint1
Senior Member

Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  09:03:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How did the Thomas drive?
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  09:57:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flint1

How did the Thomas drive?




Very good pickup from a standing start. Sound reminded me of driving a big block V8 to cruise night. I remember thinking in a short wheelbase bus this would be a blast to drive. Also wondered how I or any driver would leave the stop signs after the novelty wore off or with kids on board.
I did note that Thomas eliminated the expected engine air intake from the side of the hood and routed it under the hood forward to near the radiator, I assume for sound control.
If the IC offering truly makes 165 ft lbs more torque at 1,000 rpm..........I just gotta test drive one.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 01/13/2016 09:58:39 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2016 :  12:09:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

quote:
Originally posted by flint1

How did the Thomas drive?





If the IC offering truly makes 165 ft lbs more torque at 1,000 rpm..........I just gotta test drive one.



I agree!! I really want to see (or drive) the proof!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Carp_26
Administrator

United States
170 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2016 :  6:26:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

If I'm picking on you, I'm leaving somebody else alone.

A nearby school is expecting the state's first IC propane bus any day now (if not already there). Looking forward to seeing under the hood on that one.



Thomasbus24...Do you know if the first Ohio IC Propane unit was delivered? Has the unit been inspected and placed into route service? Sorry to bump this topic but I've been curious about this since I read it in your original post.
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2016 :  06:51:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not just yet. It went down the line just a few buses ahead of my two new ones and I believe they just arrived in the state Friday, so they won't see the road til August.

The back story is that there were some reliability issues on the test units, so IC didn't want to ship those issues out into the real world.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2016 :  12:06:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been told that a district (not sure where) refused shipment of IC propane buses because of issue. I sure hope they get the issues worked out. Competition is an awesome thing!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2016 :  07:28:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Something to do with getting the fuel from the tank, 30 feet forward at the right pressure and volume. Supposed to be resolved now.
Go to Top of Page

eshover
Senior Member

146 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2016 :  09:26:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit eshover's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Has anyone that has a BB propane V-10 had exhaust manifold studs break or the nuts work loose? We had some break off and were replaced with stainless steel. Now some of the nuts are working loose.
ED
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2016 :  09:38:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by eshover

Has anyone that has a BB propane V-10 had exhaust manifold studs break or the nuts work loose? We had some break off and were replaced with stainless steel. Now some of the nuts are working loose.
ED



Humm, no haven't had that happen. Only thing I've had problems with to do with the fuel or engine is the 80% fill valve failed, and we had a wire get skinned and short to ground (going to the low coolant level sensor of all things) and make fuel pressure go to zero momentarily.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

exmod110
Senior Member

150 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2016 :  1:48:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit exmod110's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Get used to fixing those mfld nuts-studs, it's a Ford engine and they never did "fix" that concern!
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2016 :  2:40:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by exmod110

Get used to fixing those mfld nuts-studs, it's a Ford engine and they never did "fix" that concern!



What mileage/ age does it happen? I have one with 60k on it and 2 years old that hasn't had a problem.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

exmod110
Senior Member

150 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  09:23:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit exmod110's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Was never a mileage kinda thing. When I worked in the Ford dealership up here, we did LOTS and LOTS of manifolds and studs. It is the same motor as the 5.4 and 4.6 just with 2 extra cyls. for us it was almost always the right side mfld-studs we worked on... Seamed to be due to the lack of inner fender protecting that area from wheel splash causing rapid changes in temps. I know of one BB on pane further north and he has done studs a couple times in the 2 years he has had the bus, no other complaints though. I did show him this product to help in the future....
http://maniboltdriller.com/
personally never used it but the tec's that have say its great.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  09:44:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by exmod110

Was never a mileage kinda thing. When I worked in the Ford dealership up here, we did LOTS and LOTS of manifolds and studs. It is the same motor as the 5.4 and 4.6 just with 2 extra cyls. for us it was almost always the right side mfld-studs we worked on... Seamed to be due to the lack of inner fender protecting that area from wheel splash causing rapid changes in temps. I know of one BB on pane further north and he has done studs a couple times in the 2 years he has had the bus, no other complaints though. I did show him this product to help in the future....
http://maniboltdriller.com/
personally never used it but the tec's that have say its great.


Nice!! Thanks for the link! Hope I never have to deal with it but if I do, this will be the ticket!

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

jeeptjken
Senior Member

147 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2016 :  1:45:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
we have 2 BB propane in our fleet both got studs under warranty the dealer had a jig that attached to the manifold and a guide for the drill to drill them out better them then me hahahahah but the propane do run nice and make heat in the winter time for sure

How did you get the gosinta in the whatchamacallit
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2022 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.21 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000