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 IN BAD NEED OF HELP WITH HEATER
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thebrushman
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  08:57:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit thebrushman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i GOT A 1999 BLUEBIRD WITH 444e TAKES FOREVER TO GET WARMED UP. i GOT A kat's CIRCULATION TANK HEATER THAT I WANT TO PLUM UP ON IT.COULD SOMEONE PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THE BEST PLACE IS TO HOOK IN TO ENGINE WITH INLET AND OUTLET.SOMEONE IS BOUND TO BE USING ONE OF THESE.ANY GOOD HELP AND I WOULD BE TICKLED YELLOW.

aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  10:00:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is a port on the front side of the passenger side head and a port on the back of the water pump where the heater lines come out from. Maybe you could plum it in there somehow. We have Webasto heaters that are plumbed inline with one of the heater lines, the only problem though is that if the heater valves are shut off, they dead head and don't cirulate.
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  12:22:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our buses with T444Es put out heat maybe better than any other diesel we have, especially with AT545 Allison transmission (no overdrive or lockup convertor). You've checked the thermostat, water valves open & etc.?

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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dwight
Senior Member

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  3:19:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shut the heater valves completely off and start the COLD engine. Feel all the hoses and the radiator to find where the heat is going and coming from. If the transmission has a retarder, an additional hose will be circulating coolant thru the heat exchanger possibly located in the lower radiator tank without going thru the thermostat and will slow the engine warm-up.

I WOULD NOT INSTALL a tank heater.

The 444E has a frost plug location for a heater. All 444E early engines were equipped with a frost plug heater. If yours already has it all you need is the new cord that plugs into it.

20 SCHOOL BUS FLEET OWNER/OPERATOR (Retired)

Edited by - dwight on 08/28/2015 3:53:13 PM
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  5:32:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The engine takes forever to warm up or the bus body/heaters do? Each would be a different circumstance.
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thebrushman
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2015 :  04:29:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit thebrushman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

Our buses with T444Es put out heat maybe better than any other diesel we have, especially with AT545 Allison transmission (no overdrive or lockup convertor). You've checked the thermostat, water valves open & etc.?

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thebrushman
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2015 :  04:38:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit thebrushman's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Yes mine puts out great heat and does as it should ONCE it comes up to temp it just has to sit and run on fast idle for such a long time last winter when it got bad cold over an hour.one of these would have it warm

Edited by - thebrushman on 08/29/2015 04:55:27 AM
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thebrushman
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2015 :  04:50:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit thebrushman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My block heater works fine as fore warming to start but that little spot it warms dont do much for heaters.Thanks to you guys for all the great help so far. i guess you can tell i am not much of a puter whiz.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2015 :  08:45:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So you want a bus that has instant body heat? You'll need an aux fuel fired heater to accomplish that. Espar and Wabasto come to mind.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2015 :  11:56:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

So you want a bus that has instant body heat? You'll need an aux fuel fired heater to accomplish that. Espar and Wabasto come to mind.


Or a propane. lol It's just interesting to me how many of these problems are solved with a propane engine. That is all, carry on.

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2015 :  12:00:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you going to try the Blue Bird gasser?
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2015 :  06:11:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It will be very interesting to see how much the gas Bluebird Vision costs to purchase in comparison with diesel and propane powered buses.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
196 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2015 :  07:52:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most older diesels don't warm up well at idol. Let it warm up not longer than 15 minutes get in and drive to the first stop and the bus is warm. They warm up faster when being driven.
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dwight
Senior Member

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2015 :  11:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thebrushman

My block heater works fine for warming to start but that little spot it warms doesn't do much for heaters.


In 1964 I started to do my own cold weather Minnesota testing and I shared my test results with Blue Bird engineering for many years. The head engineer personally verified my SUPERIOR HEATING & DEFROSTING results with extensive testing recorded on new Bluebird school buses during testing in Canadian January Winter temperatures.

WARMING A COLD BUS IN WINTER (without a auxiliary furnace)

1. Close the water valve for the bus interior.
2. Start engine & set on quick idle.
3. When engine begins to warm, open heater water valve "SLIGHTLY" to help defrost windshield and start driving.
4. When engine gains good temperature continue opening heater water valve only as far a necessary.
5. Always set for fresh air as engine gains temperature.
This system would efficiently be done automatically if the school bus manufactures would spend a few dollars to standardize it.
(The heater water valve would open if a auxiliary furnace was turned on)

20 SCHOOL BUS FLEET OWNER/OPERATOR (Retired)

Edited by - dwight on 09/02/2015 11:10:47 PM
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2015 :  04:44:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dwight

quote:
Originally posted by thebrushman

My block heater works fine for warming to start but that little spot it warms doesn't do much for heaters.


In 1964 I started to do my own cold weather Minnesota testing and I shared my test results with Blue Bird engineering for many years. The head engineer personally verified my SUPERIOR HEATING & DEFROSTING results with extensive testing recorded on new Bluebird school buses during testing in Canadian January Winter temperatures.

WARMING A COLD BUS IN WINTER (without a auxiliary furnace)

1. Close the water valve for the bus interior.
2. Start engine & set on quick idle.
3. When engine begins to warm, open heater water valve "SLIGHTLY" to help defrost windshield and start driving.
4. When engine gains good temperature continue opening heater water valve only as far a necessary.
5. Always set for fresh air as engine gains temperature.
This system would efficiently be done automatically if the school bus manufactures would spend a few dollars to standardize it.
(The heater water valve would open if a auxiliary furnace was turned on)



Instead, the typical bus driver will start their bus, turn every heater on high speed, go back in the bus garage and expect a miracle when they return 15 minutes or so later. I have even seen drivers kick them off of fast idle because they don't like to hear the engine "roar". Or they will come in off the route with every heater on high with 1/3 of the windows partially open and complain about the bus not heating well.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 09/03/2015 06:59:27 AM
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