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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2015 : 08:33:25 AM
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08 MaxxForce DT, the bus runs great but after it gets back from route and shut down it won't start back up. The engine cranks but won't start, code says "ICP not building during cranking". The desired ICP is 945psi but the actual ICP is 450psi during cranking. If you let the engine cool down about an hour it'll start with no problem.
Repairs: replaced injector pucks, replaced ICP sensor and the problem remains.
Any input is appreciated, thanks! |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2015 : 06:51:05 AM
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| Update: Checked all the pressures before cranking with ServiceMaxx and noticed all the pressures were at 0 psi except the ICP it was showing 4-5 psi before it was cranked up. I then checked another bus exactly like it and all pressures read 0 psi including the ICP. Test drove the bus to get it hot then parked it and shut it down, checked the pressures once again all were showing 0 psi the ICP showed 13 psi with the bus off. I tried to start the bus but it only cranked and cranked and no start. The ICP sensor is new but that doesn't mean anything. When the bus cools down then it'll start. I'm gonna order another ICP sensor and try it again! The ICP sensor is giving a false reading while the engine is not running but with the engine running it reads right according to ServiceMaxx. Checked all the temps before cranking also and the temps read right. |
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Bassman
Top Member
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 03:05:12 AM
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| Could be oil dilution from the stupid in cyl dosing. Try changing the oil before you waste too much time. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 05:49:37 AM
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| @Bassman that's a possibility I'll check when the last service was done. I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks. |
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mysterytrain
Active Member
34 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 06:04:34 AM
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| if it shows icp with the engine off, the icp is biased high and needs to be replaced. |
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mhernandez73
Senior Member
124 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 06:34:56 AM
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| I say injector or injectors. to check we have a portapower fitted with high pressure guauge fill it with cj oil. remove high pressure hose going into head. remove the hpop side get proper high pressure fiitings to connect pp. we pressure up to 800 to 1000 psi. if it holds test hpop and component if it bleeds down remove valve cover and look at injectors puck orings. we sometimes add die to get a better look at things hope this helps |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 06:44:14 AM
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| Update: oil was changed 2 months ago, would it get diluted that quick? Changing out the ICP sensor under warranty, we replaced the ICP sensor back in Feb 2015 so it's free. Keep y'all posted. |
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mhernandez73
Senior Member
124 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2015 : 08:04:31 AM
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| DTs do have a dilution problem. I don't think its ur main problem. all the times weve had extended starts it was injectors/injector o rings or pucks |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2015 : 2:10:53 PM
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| Update: replaced the ICP sensor under warranty. The problem remains, ICP pressure still registers (6-7-8psi) with the engine off!!! How can this be? Could the ECM be bad? Are there any other O-rings on the oil manifold that I'm not seeing? The service guy at the dealership said there are O-rings other than the injector pucks that could be leaking on the oil manifold. Can someone confirm this? |
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namao
Senior Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2015 : 2:53:17 PM
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| Hello, first thing I would do is unplug icp and try to start, it should go to a default duty cycle on the ipr and start if there is no mechanical problems. If it does not start either no oil to hpop pump, hpop pump is bad, ipr is bad or there is a leak under the v/c. Next thing we would do same as said before by one member is, we have a porta power set up to test under v/c systems for holding pressure [for 7.3/6.0 and 466] works really slick just hook up to head connection and it should give you 1500 to 2000 psi within a couple pumps and hold above 500 for a extended period of time. Under the valve cover as well as the pucks you could have a injector leaking, pull v/c cover and crank if there is a leak should be able to visialy see. This is where the porta power helps it either holds or it doesn't. If there is no leaks and you have a good supply of oil from engine it needs a hpop pump. We did one on a truck couple weeks ago and hot no start and it was the pump could go either way though. good luck. |
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mhernandez73
Senior Member
124 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2015 : 05:23:08 AM
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[qwe do same procedure namao. we may have got the idea from you. we already diag/repaired 5 or more using this!uote]Originally posted by namao
Hello, first thing I would do is unplug icp and try to start, it should go to a default duty cycle on the ipr and start if there is no mechanical problems. If it does not start either no oil to hpop pump, hpop pump is bad, ipr is bad or there is a leak under the v/c. Next thing we would do same as said before by one member is, we have a porta power set up to test under v/c systems for holding pressure [for 7.3/6.0 and 466] works really slick just hook up to head connection and it should give you 1500 to 2000 psi within a couple pumps and hold above 500 for a extended period of time. Under the valve cover as well as the pucks you could have a injector leaking, pull v/c cover and crank if there is a leak should be able to visialy see. This is where the porta power helps it either holds or it doesn't. If there is no leaks and you have a good supply of oil from engine it needs a hpop pump. We did one on a truck couple weeks ago and hot no start and it was the pump could go either way though. good luck.
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 09:23:12 AM
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| Any update on this? I have one doing basically the exact same thing. I haven't checked for oil leaking at the pucks yet, but am just seeing if you've had any luck yet. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2015 : 05:25:03 AM
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| Update: New injectors and pucks didn't fix it. Now gonna try a HPOP from another bus and keep y'all posted. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2015 : 09:29:23 AM
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| Update: I didn't try swapping the HPOP like I said I was. I talked to a mechanic from International and he told me to replace the oil inlet O-ring from the high pressure manifold. Well the last mechanic that replaced the injector pucks didn't know there was such O-ring when he reinstalled the manifold. Long story short he left the O-ring off and that was the whole problem all along. The bus runs great and starts up just fine now. Thanks for all the inputs! |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2015 : 3:41:50 PM
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| Thanks for the update. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2015 : 05:58:50 AM
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| Update: Started doing it again!!!! Now I'll swap HPOP with sister bus and keep y'all posted. |
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grandyc
Senior Member
United States
58 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2015 : 07:52:38 AM
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| Once you get it running again wiggle the pigtail at the IPR valve. I have seen issues with spread pins there in the past. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2015 : 11:43:00 AM
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| Thanks! I'll try that before I swap the HPOP. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2015 : 08:05:17 AM
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Update: well I was finally able to swap out the HPOP, and the problem moved to the other bus. It's nice to be able to swap out parts before buying. Thanks for all your input.
Now onto this Maxxforce7, I'll be removing the engine due to a lifter roller coming apart and chewing up the cam and mushrooming the bottom of the lifter not allowing to be pulled out like normal. But that's for another thread. LOL... |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2015 : 11:36:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
Update: well I was finally able to swap out the HPOP, and the problem moved to the other bus. It's nice to be able to swap out parts before buying. Thanks for all your input.
Now onto this Maxxforce7, I'll be removing the engine due to a lifter roller coming apart and chewing up the cam and mushrooming the bottom of the lifter not allowing to be pulled out like normal. But that's for another thread. LOL...
If its a 2007-2009 MaxxForce 7, Cummins can repower it with a fresh warranty and a claimed 17% improvement in fuel economy. Of course it will cost you 1/3 the price of a new bus....... |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2015 : 06:38:28 AM
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| @Fastback that would be worth the upgrade to a Cummings seeing as we keep our buses indefinite. Ours is a 2011 I wonder if its still an option? I'll definitely check it out now that you've mentioned it. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2015 : 07:13:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
@Fastback that would be worth the upgrade to a Cummings seeing as we keep our buses indefinite. Ours is a 2011 I wonder if its still an option? I'll definitely check it out now that you've mentioned it.
Our letter came out in May of this year from www.cumminscentralpower.com , it says program is available through 2017. But also says only available for 2007-2009 model year buses, just speculating that maybe they can't put a 2007 emission certified engine and aftertreatment system in a 2011 model year bus even though IC did originally? |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 09/17/2015 07:15:32 AM |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2015 : 12:04:34 PM
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Not sure of the technical issues involved but legally there is an issue with puttig a pre-'10 engine in a post-'10 model vehicle. Glider kits are required to be powered to the original EPA cert level of that particular truck model year. So if you have a 2010 VIN or newer Cummins would be legally required to provide a 2010 or newer compliant engine.
International was technically providing 2010 compliant engines because of credits even though the hardware wasn't complying. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2015 : 12:36:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JRob
Not sure of the technical issues involved but legally there is an issue with puttig a pre-'10 engine in a post-'10 model vehicle. Glider kits are required to be powered to the original EPA cert level of that particular truck model year. So if you have a 2010 VIN or newer Cummins would be legally required to provide a 2010 or newer compliant engine.
International was technically providing 2010 compliant engines because of credits even though the hardware wasn't complying.
Extra frustrating would be having a 2010 model year bus built in 2009 and not being able to take advantage of the repower program.
For the bus owner, kind of an EPA one-two punch in the gut er eye?  |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 09/18/2015 12:49:06 PM |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2015 : 2:03:49 PM
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| I probably wasn't clear on this. The model year would be tied to the engine vs the whole bus. So you could have a 2010 model bus with a pre-10 engine. The EPA even allows some time to transition in the normal course of business. However if you go to re-power a bus and the engine in the bus is EPA10 or newer, you must replace with a EPA10 or newer engine. |
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2008 MaxxForce DT
