School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 2004 IC Fe300 died
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2015 :  4:56:04 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yesterday I was driving a route for another driver . Bus was running
great . About an hour into the run I dropped off some students and went to leave the stop . I was picking up speed and watching my gauges . At about 35 mph started loosing power and watched as my speedometer and tach were dropping . I pressed on the acelaraterr and nothing .I was on a busy highway with no shoulders so I couldn't look at all the gauges as I coasted to a stop . I tied to restart the bus and wouldn't begin to start . This morning my service maxx only had one code 426 ? Said no. 6 injecter low or high . I cleaned the filter and had a new CMP an tried that .Engine just spins . I did check fuses in the battery box all good . Which direction should I go . Hope someone can help . Thanks

Bus Tech1
Senior Member

76 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2015 :  5:12:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How is the engine and high pressure pump pressures?
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2015 :  8:11:07 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Well I am not sure . While I was running the gauge showed 55 lbs . Not sure about the HPOP .
Go to Top of Page

Bus Tech1
Senior Member

76 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  07:26:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can you check HPOP with your Service Maxx? I believe you need a min. of about 700psi to start.
Go to Top of Page

mysterytrain
Active Member

34 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  07:30:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit mysterytrain's Homepage  Reply with Quote
had one die and did not set a code for icp pressure, icp sensor biased high showed 3500 pounds with engine off, replaced sensor and ran like a top again, icp sensor should be at 0 psi with engine off. like it was stated the pump must produce about 700 psi to start.
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  08:03:58 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I am fairly new to service maxx . Can I check HPOP with it ? Also if I remember right if I unplug ICP doesn't allow the engine will start but only idle .
Go to Top of Page

Bus Tech1
Senior Member

76 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  08:18:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the ICP sensor is bad it may start. You should be able to read all the data if you have the Service Maxx program. Click on the tab "pressure" above where it says module connection.
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  09:06:20 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Okay first thank you to those who responsded .I crank engine over while plugged in . I ran pressuer check on service maxx . I showed 67 psi on injection control pressure and 0 on ICP . Shows over 2000 lbs exhaust pressure
Go to Top of Page

Bus Tech1
Senior Member

76 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  11:21:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the HOP reading I would look towards the pump normally but I have never seen a high exhaust pressure reading like that. I would check the ex. sensor first(I don`t know if that could shut the bus down). Do you have a Navistar account to acess the manuals to troubleshoot?
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  1:54:13 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
No I do not . Another thought on the oil pressure is I am wondering if oil is to thin . Been awhile sice they serviced this bus
Go to Top of Page

Bus Tech1
Senior Member

76 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  2:04:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Normally with thin oil I think you would notice the same as injector o-rings leaking(no start hot). Other than the exhaust pressure reading I would lean towards the HOP pump. Maybe someone else has a better idea. I`m not good at sending pages or I would find it and send it.
Go to Top of Page

57fan
Senior Member

United States
148 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2015 :  9:44:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure about your readings you are seeing. first off ignore the EBP sensor reading as well as 426. I have seen these kinds of reading before when other codes are present. They usually go away and do not affect starting. now onto the the HPOP readings. don't know what your refering to that is 67 psi but going to assume this is a fuel pressure reading which is normal.

Now running Servicemaxx, go to sessions and choose hard start or no start (I think thats what it is called). look at your ICPD readings (injection Control Pressure Desired - This is what the ECM is requesting or desiring the engine to put out) and the ICP reading (injection Control Pressure - this is what the sensor in the HP oil rail is receiving). When starting the engine the ICPD should be well above 1000 psi until the engine starts. The ICP will tell the ECM what the pressure is and near 700 psi the engine should start and the ICPD will drop down to the 700 PSI range as well as the ICP very close to it. If you see no pressure on the ICP my money would be the ICP sensor has gone bad.

Being that you have an FE bus it is way easier to replace the ICP sensor than the HPOP. It usually takes me 90 minutes or so to change an ICP sensor start to finish. We have had way too many sensors go bad over the years. The HPOP is somewhere in the $1000.00 range (plus core) and the ICP sensor in in the $100.00 range. If the engine still does not start I would get a HP oil gauge set up and check what the actual HP oil pressure is.

We have a spare connector for the IPR valve and use it to test the IPR valve. We connect one wire to a battery source. Then while cranking the engine touch the other wire to ground and see what the ICP pressure reading is on the gauge. If it does not max out 4000 to 7000 psi then you have a HPOP or IPR issue. Do not leave the IPR connected to a battery for very long as this will make the HPOP max out if it is working correctly. Once again it is easier to change an IPR valve than a HPOP. International has special tools to remove the original IPR as well as the new style IPR Valve and they are well worth the money.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2015 :  09:34:27 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Thank you 57 Fan and anyone else who replied . I just went and looked at the sessions hard to start . My ICP reading was 0 % . I tried carnking and it still read 0 % . Sounds like a ICP ? Thanks again exhaust bounced 0- 2345 lbs .
Go to Top of Page

slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2015 :  10:18:02 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Your definetly going in the right direction, could be sensor, but more likely you probably have a seal on the HPO rail blown or a HPO pump/IP regulator issue as 57fan says above... you really need to (dead head)test pump and pull valve cover and do air pressure check on oil rail....hopefully you can get online service manuals through IC on command they are very helpful to guide you thru process..

I have pulled valve cover and had someone crank engine for me, then watch for major oil leaks on rail... be it around injector adapters(pucks)or else where...sometimes it is obious other times you have to pressurize with air to see leaks...

Is this an 04 emission egr engine? or an 04 bus with the older version engine? DT?

Edited by - slippert on 04/27/2015 10:28:55 AM
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2015 :  10:52:09 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
It's a 04 with the egr .
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2015 :  09:24:05 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
This is an update
I just pulled the valve cover and turned engine over . I saw no leakage coming from the injectors or rail . Whats next ? I have a ICP and a IPR on order
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  07:44:06 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Okay up date I replaced a sensor on the oil rail under valve cover No start . What should I try next ?
Go to Top of Page

willism
Advanced Member

United States
250 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  09:43:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit willism's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pull the ipr valve off and look in the end see if there is a screen if there's not the hp oil pump needs to be replaced. The last one i did the screen was there but dented and the hp oil pump fixed that also.
Go to Top of Page

second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  10:46:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do you have engine oil pressure while cranking?
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  11:52:27 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
yes I have oil pressure when cranking .As far as pulling the IPR I am waiting for a tool to remove it
Go to Top of Page

second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  12:16:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shoot me an email and I can send you the pdf of the no-start form.
Go to Top of Page

bfaulkner
Senior Member

168 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  12:21:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit bfaulkner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As far as replacing the Hpop just because the IPR screen is gone, I wouldn't. I have replaced many IRP valves with punctured screens and have not had any Hpop problems. I would replace it first and see how it runs. If its still runs bad then replace the Hpop
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2015 :  3:12:28 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Second flood send it too pastboardmember@gmail.com
Go to Top of Page

second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2015 :  04:58:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me know if you get it.
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2015 :  08:42:08 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
got it thanks
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2015 :  10:03:40 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Okay I got the IPR out and there is hole in the scree .Sounds like a bad valve ?
Go to Top of Page

bfaulkner
Senior Member

168 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2015 :  10:56:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit bfaulkner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes I would at least replace the IPR Valve. There is a possibility that the HPOP has damage from the screen but I would try the IPR and drive it first.
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2015 :  3:07:14 PM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Wanted to update everyone who replied .I a pressure gauge rated at up to 6000 psi .Put it on the end of the hose coming out of HPOP .Cranked for 25 seconds .Showed nothing .Needle didn't move Took hose off pump and wondered if oil even left the pump .Pulled off gauge you can see oil on it .So HPOP bad ?
Go to Top of Page

bfaulkner
Senior Member

168 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2015 :  09:08:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit bfaulkner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is with the new IPR valve Installed? If so then yes the pump is bad. Just to check to make sure there is oil up to the Hpop. Removed the oil temp sensor. it is located in the back of the front cover just above the hpop. if it has oil come out then its removed then you are good and i would say yes, replace the Hpop. if you get a reman unit from an International dealer it comes with a new IPR installed.
Go to Top of Page

valleybusman
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2015 :  10:18:51 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
This was the old HPOP and when I removed temp sensor oil came out.Thanks for the info.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2022 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.22 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000