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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
 Posted - 01/15/2015 : 8:24:55 PM
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| I think I am ready to get this bus out of my hair . I have written asking for advice for the last few months . I finally have service maxx and the disc for my cables .The codes I pulled were 145 , 225 , 368 , 543 , 155 , 534 , and 525 . The next codes said my injectors went to ground . Now I need a second opinion on what is wrong and where to start . Sounds like to me the ECM or IDM ? Or both and maybe some relays . The test I did was KOEO is this an accurate way to find out if it won't start . Thanks |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 04:10:17 AM
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There is or was a TSI letter on the 525 code to replace all 8 injectors before your replace the IDM. I can't get into ISIS right now or I would post it for you.
Check you UVC (under valve cover) wiring first. The problem can be disconnected or shorted wires to the injectors. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 04:25:59 AM
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Active codes or inactive?
No expert here but....
534 is the one that I would concern myself with first; IDM relay voltage low-----probable causes; low batteries, loose connections/resistance in circuit, failed relay
Some of those other codes are no signals from sensors which I would think might also stem from the above causes. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 06:05:44 AM
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| Not sure which . What or how do I tell if the codes are in active or active . Should I try and clear the codes and try starting bus ? I do know batteries are low and am trying to recharge now . Thanks for the advicee .I looked up 145 and it is inactiv |
Edited by - valleybusman on 01/16/2015 08:14:38 AM |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 08:27:44 AM
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| Yes, I would clear codes, charge batteries, inspect connections, especially the 10/12 gauge wiring from batteries to the relays. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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mysterytrain
Active Member
34 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 12:14:05 PM
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| usually when ever i get all the injector codes on my 466 fleet (older 04-08) it has been the 40 amp fuse in the battery box is loose, they were made of a poor metal and after i have replaced them all of the injector codes have gone away it usually sets a code after the idm falls below about 7volts and then the engine don't run very well, also have seen poor cables to the idm relay. |
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bfaulkner
Senior Member
168 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 12:27:13 PM
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| Is this on a 444E or a DT466E? on my 05 DT466 I have had many issues with IDM voltage. it ranges from the 40 AMP fuel in the box, the Clean Power harness running from the batteries to the engine, and Also the IDM or ECM Relays under the hood above the engine attached to the fire wall. All of these have given me the loe voltage IDM codes and random Injector codes. |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2015 : 1:41:49 PM
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| It's a 466 and I appriciate any advice anybody gives .N |
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bfaulkner
Senior Member
168 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2015 : 08:41:43 AM
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What is your engine doing. Crank but no start. or is it shutting off running down the road.
Looking through the codes the 3 for IDM are the big issue. and it seems like it is in the power delivery to the IDM. A quick way to check for power and circuit integrity for the IDM is to removed the Relay under the hood. take an older headlight bulb or overhead bulb. on of the big ones. attach leads to it and use it in the IDM circuit. connect it across the larger 2 wires for the relay. with the key on it should light up. if it doesn't then its either no power or the circuit cant handle the load so its damaged.
The comon causes are the fuse, harness section under the bus, harness section inside battery box, relay under the hood, or the IDM itself.
One last thing the came to mind and I'm not sure on this. i had one 05 that did not have the IDM power at key on. it turned out to be the Ignition relay in the side panel, there are 2 of them, i replaced both and it has run fine since but I'm not sure if that was just a fluke or not. |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 07:31:57 AM
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| The problem I have is bus will crank but won't start batteries are low .I can start bus on ether but sounds really bad .To start with bus went on a bus run and ran really rough and black smoke sometimes and engine warning light came on . Brought bus back to garage with engine warning light and transmission light on .Shut bus off for the night . Next day wouldn't start . No smoke or nothing . Now this is a FE 300 no front end where would the relays and fuses be ? Thanks |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 08:13:17 AM
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| Chassis relays and fuses are in compartment below drivers window, also there are some relays behind the door that contains the drivers side windshield wiper assembly. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 01/20/2015 08:16:05 AM |
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namao
Senior Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 2:33:46 PM
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| I just went through this with a ce bus last month, 534 was the code that stood out. thought for sure it was going to be a burnt fuse holder but it was good. I ended up checking the pins on the connector side of the idm relay, the main power into it was heated and loose when I checked it with a pin pull test. Found it doing voltage drops from the battery positive. Found the area and just kept checking, it actually looked good visually. Good luck. |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 4:38:14 PM
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| I have come to the conclusion that I am looking at the IDM .I checked fuses in the battery box . I checked those wires and they looked great . I can't figure out what relay controls what . So I am thinking of measuring power to IDM Now where are the ECM and IDM located ? I think they are near the right spring ? |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 06:05:45 AM
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| ECM/IDM are mounted on the side of the engine block above the starter. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 07:48:27 AM
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Thanks Fastback
I just went out to bus and I can see something there . Not sure what .Question now is , how do you get it out ? Anybody ever do one of these ? Thanks |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 09:02:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by valleybusman
Thanks Fastback
I just went out to bus and I can see something there . Not sure what .Question now is , how do you get it out ? Anybody ever do one of these ? Thanks
I have never had an ECM/IDM go bad.
In my experience the problems are almost always between the battery and the relays. If you don't know which relays, I would check the 10/12 gauge wiring in the battery box for stenciled on circuit numbers then look for relays with those numbers going to them, likely behind drivers side windshield wiper motor access door. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 09:43:34 AM
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| The reason I thought IDM was that I read where a IC mechanic said if you have a 525 code the IDM is shot . Thanks again |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 10:53:35 AM
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| Wanted see if this could be my problem . I crawled under bus under the starter .A wire coming a tab with black shrink wrap .It's melted .Then that wire goes to a stud in the block .Where a big white wire meets it . Then that wire goes up too the IDM .It's coroded reallt bad .Could this be cause ? |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 12:14:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by valleybusman
Wanted see if this could be my problem . I crawled under bus under the starter .A wire coming a tab with black shrink wrap .It's melted .Then that wire goes to a stud in the block .Where a big white wire meets it . Then that wire goes up too the IDM .It's coroded reallt bad .Could this be cause ?
Sounds like a possible bad ground for the IDM, I would think it certainly could create some real issues. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2015 : 12:36:34 PM
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| I also forgot Batteries are charged an.it turns over really slow |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 05:23:07 AM
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| The specifications for a DT466 of that vintage call for a minimum of 130 cranking rpm; starter draw? voltage drop? bad connections? defective batteries? Might want to correct the source of the slow cranking problem before you go much farther. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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57fan
Senior Member
United States
148 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2015 : 9:35:33 PM
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valleybusman, I have had the pleasure (said with a sneer) of replacing the IDM on a couple 05 DT466's on FE buses. Not a fun job at all. It is located above the starter bolted to brackets bolted to the block. I remove the dip-stick tube, EGR control module, connectors and then try and get all the bolts out (the rear bolts / nuts are the worst). the IDM is bolted to the ECM. The sad part is the IDM is closest to the block so you got to fish them both out. The IDM has 2 halves to it. One is the Brains of it and the other is the high voltage side (does all the work) this is the one that usually goes bad. It is the exact same IDM as found on the VT365. If you change the injector driver side of the IDM you can get it for about $200. swap it out and reassemble everything. If you change the entire IDM you got to have the IDM reprogrammed by a dealer once it is installed in the bus (in others words a expensive service call of about $500) plus an entire IDM is well over $500.
As for using ether on an engine, That is very dangerous if you have intake (grid) heaters on your engine. There should be a label on the bus stating not to use ether. If it was to ignite in the intake you are looking at possible engine damage and possible injuries... FYI |
Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine |
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I C codes
