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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2014 :  2:00:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We got 3 2014 Visions in April, and 2 of them are having problems with the horns not working. We've removed the lower steering column cover and found brass shavings from the ring under the steering wheel. Appears as if the plunger is wearing into the ring and causing a poor connection. I compared it to a 2012 model and it has the same setup, but the parts look slightly different and we've had no problems with these buses. Anyone else have this issue?

partsman_ba
Administrator

United States
377 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2014 :  2:45:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only one of those we've had to change was on a 2013 D3RE, but we actually don't have a 2014 bus on the lot, so I can't say anything about that model year. Got multiples of '10-'13s and '15s, but no '14s.

"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional."
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2014 :  06:07:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Did you just change the horn contacts? That's what Blue Bird is sending me.
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2014 :  1:24:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://newyorkbussales.com/pdfs/10-0331_horn_button_issue.pdf

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2014 :  2:28:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you for that!!! I will be contacting my Blue Bird rep about this. Thanks so much!!
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2014 :  12:18:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bluebirdvision

http://newyorkbussales.com/pdfs/10-0331_horn_button_issue.pdf



In other words, we know a new contact will wear down but put a new one in there anyway. lol
Thanks for the information guys. Might prevent some headaches later. lol

Bryan
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2014 :  2:57:12 PM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
This is a issue Bluebird had with the visions... Back in 2005, local district here bought 10 at that time and had horn issues on them back then... Brass shavings and worn contacts.... Sounds like same issue has been around for a few years
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2014 :  3:41:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

quote:
Originally posted by bluebirdvision

http://newyorkbussales.com/pdfs/10-0331_horn_button_issue.pdf



In other words, we know a new contact will wear down but put a new one in there anyway. lol
Thanks for the information guys. Might prevent some headaches later. lol



I do believe that there is an updated part now, this is an old TSB

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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  06:26:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We haven't had any issues with our older Visions, 2004-2013, but these brand new ones are being a headache for us. I will be putting the new contacts on today, and we will probably keep these parts on the shelf until BB has a definite fix for it.
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2014 :  09:56:49 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aaronwilmoth80911

We haven't had any issues with our older Visions, 2004-2013, but these brand new ones are being a headache for us. I will be putting the new contacts on today, and we will probably keep these parts on the shelf until BB has a definite fix for it.




Yeah, I have some 09 visions that have never had an issue with this either....

Just remember that districts mechanic @#$%#@ and swearing about brass shavings and worn contacts on those 2005's he has.. and on a separate issue, he had....
The horn would lose power/ground? from control module and quit working, he told me bird dealer here ended up bypassing wire from control module and adding a relay wired directly to power side of bus.. that cured that issue..

Worst part was they always seemed to give him issue when the State police called to do inspections,
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2014 :  10:55:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A weird thing I noticed on these new ones, is that they seem to be on a delay of some sort. I replaced the contacts, hit the steering wheel and got nothing. After awhile of screwing with it, I turned the ignition on and it worked. Turned it off and it worked. Came back to it an hour or so later and it wouldn't work until I turned on the ignition again. Does this seem strange to anyone else?
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2014 :  12:01:56 PM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aaronwilmoth80911

A weird thing I noticed on these new ones, is that they seem to be on a delay of some sort. I replaced the contacts, hit the steering wheel and got nothing. After awhile of screwing with it, I turned the ignition on and it worked. Turned it off and it worked. Came back to it an hour or so later and it wouldn't work until I turned on the ignition again. Does this seem strange to anyone else?



IDK ,sounds like Deja-vu...if memory serves me it was after the brass shavings showed up and new horn parts were installed in the local districts 05 visions... he started having issues with signal coming out of Controller, and was then that BB dealer installed relays. I may have to call him and quiz him on the circumstances he had back then on his buses.. but sounds so familar

Seems like on a few of his buses, the wearing brass got piled up enough in the wrong places. The horn would short out when turning and blow intermitently or blow constantly till wires were unhooked from horns... so horns worked one of three ways.. intermitent, constant or not at all..

I can't imagine why there would be a delay.....? key on or key off ... horn should work whenever you push horn button... I know our state inspectors wouldn't be impressed if key had to be cycled to make horn operate..

Edited by - slippert on 10/31/2014 12:19:12 PM
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2014 :  3:48:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the multiplexer is "asleep" it will take awhile to respond. That's why there is sometimes a short delay after you turn the key on If you listen really close, you can hear it turning on.

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  06:06:09 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by bluebirdvision

If the multiplexer is "asleep" it will take awhile to respond. That's why there is sometimes a short delay after you turn the key on If you listen really close, you can hear it turning on.


I am not sure I agree with this logic.... As far as horn is concerned....Every vehicle I have ever been around when pressing horn button, horn will honk regardless if key is cycled on or not..if key is in my hand horn will honk... unless some young Bluebird engineer in his infinite wisdom... decided it was a great idea to program bus that way... I see no reason for there to be a delay in horn operation... I also guarantee it would be a tag in state inspection here, if inspector had to piss with key to get it to operate.. And I quote.lol " After awhile of screwing with it I turned the ignition on and it worked" ... " came back later and it wouldn't work till I turn ignition on again"

Sorry ...Doesn't seem right to me...
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  06:37:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@Slippert: Exactly what I was thinking. I will report this to my BlueBird warranty/service rep and see what he has to say, or see what he can dig up.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  10:11:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is correct. The system goes into a sleep mode to prevent battery drain, then when something is activated (including horn, lights, key switch, etc.) it takes a second or two to come up. If your state is going to "tag" a bus that acts like this they will cause mass confusion and undue stress for everyone involved. If, as I suspect, they already know about this I would imagine they are ok with it. Those guys often bark louder than they bite.

I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to or need to deal with people from the government who think they are larger than life. We can all be replaced and we don't need to be getting under each others skin like that. We need to be doing our jobs and if we don't we should be told politely that we need to change and shown why and how (that includes these inspectors you're talking about). If we don't respond then there is no need to get in my face about, just dismiss me and send me down the road.

OK, I'm off my soap box. Good Day!!

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  10:15:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, here in Ohio we had the head of the bus inspection, John Boster. He was the kind of guy who would get his ruler out and make sure the words "Emergency Exit" weren't more than 3" above the windows, and God help you if you had "Emergency Exit" instead of "Emergency Door" over the back door.

We are big government, let us help you!
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  11:51:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@bwest: What is happening though, is that the system does not "wake up" after pressing the horn multiple times. The ignition must be turned back on in order to have the horn work again. The horn will continue to work for a limited amount of time after the key is turned off though.
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  12:17:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why would you need the horn to work with the key off?

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  12:41:13 PM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Arron, keep us posted on what you find out from Bluebird, I am very curious if there is a difference in how the newer birds are programed? or yours are just not working as what would be considered to me normal..


Edited by - slippert on 11/03/2014 12:46:08 PM
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  1:15:04 PM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bluebirdvision

Why would you need the horn to work with the key off?



IDK why it needs too... Other than to hurry your wife or kids out of the house? Pretty much all vehicles for last 50 years horn works with key in your pocket..

Unless your driving a Volkswagon those you have to turn key on to make work.... Maybe its a European thing, idk.....
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  2:24:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I understand why it may not "need" to work, but all of our other buses' horns work with the key off. I'm just saying that it seems weird to me.
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2014 :  5:48:58 PM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aaronwilmoth80911

I understand why it may not "need" to work, but all of our other buses' horns work with the key off. I'm just saying that it seems weird to me.



100 percent agreement with your statement
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2014 :  05:52:15 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This is correct. The system goes into a sleep mode to prevent battery drain, then when something is activated (including horn, lights, key switch, etc.) it takes a second or two to come up. If your state is going to "tag" a bus that acts like this they will cause mass confusion and undue stress for everyone involved. If, as I suspect, they already know about this I would imagine they are ok with it. Those guys often bark louder than they bite.

I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to or need to deal with people from the government who think they are larger than life. We can all be replaced and we don't need to be getting under each others skin like that. We need to be doing our jobs and if we don't we should be told politely that we need to change and shown why and how (that includes these inspectors you're talking about). If we don't respond then there is no need to get in my face about, just dismiss me and send me down the road.

OK, I'm off my soap box. Good Day!!



Think you got on your soap box too quick.... I was in no way stateing any bus would be tagged for system waking up or going to sleep... really has nothing to do with computer sleep mode..

Just horn operation, which if it varies from the norm i.e. intermittent, fails to operate or function as designed, bus can be tagged for that in MI... IMO if I walk in my lot and touch a horn button it should emit a loud sound regardless if key is in bus or still hanging on my key board in shop.. should not have to cycle key on to wake up bus, to get horn to work...
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2014 :  06:52:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slippert

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This is correct. The system goes into a sleep mode to prevent battery drain, then when something is activated (including horn, lights, key switch, etc.) it takes a second or two to come up. If your state is going to "tag" a bus that acts like this they will cause mass confusion and undue stress for everyone involved. If, as I suspect, they already know about this I would imagine they are ok with it. Those guys often bark louder than they bite.

I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to or need to deal with people from the government who think they are larger than life. We can all be replaced and we don't need to be getting under each others skin like that. We need to be doing our jobs and if we don't we should be told politely that we need to change and shown why and how (that includes these inspectors you're talking about). If we don't respond then there is no need to get in my face about, just dismiss me and send me down the road.

OK, I'm off my soap box. Good Day!!



Think you got on your soap box too quick.... I was in no way stateing any bus would be tagged for system waking up or going to sleep... really has nothing to do with computer sleep mode..

Just horn operation, which if it varies from the norm i.e. intermittent, fails to operate or function as designed, bus can be tagged for that in MI... IMO if I walk in my lot and touch a horn button it should emit a loud sound regardless if key is in bus or still hanging on my key board in shop.. should not have to cycle key on to wake up bus, to get horn to work...



Yeah, I'm with you on when the horn should work. For heaven sakes, all it used to be was a ground wire running to the horn switch. How hard can that be? Looks like they wouldn't need to run that though the multiplex. She's a brave new world, boys. lol

Bryan
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