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 Child Check Systems...what works?
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  04:32:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's been a real run on conversation about these electronic child check systems on here lately. We've been kicking the idea around but I have come concerns and need input from you folk who actually have these things on your buses.

I have a sample from Doran, one coming from Check Mate, and am thinking about getting one from Bus Scan and Home Bound (I think that's the name?).

Here is my primary concern: We are not allowed to idle at the schools unless it is extremely cold. I want a system that will allow for two things:

1. Does not activate just because the bus does. It needs to trigger by the warning lights.

2. Will allow a driver to turn the key off and back to accessory when at the schools without alarming when the door is open to unload.

Why pay the money for these systems if they don't "work"? Meaning what good is it if the driver (or a kid) has to deactivate it BEFORE unloading the bus!

Any input greatly appreciated, as always!

1983WardFord
Top Member

USA
1395 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  05:22:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Child CheckMate:
1) depends on how they're wired in...some of ours don't activate unless the warning lights do, others will activate on their own after the bus has been going for about 10 minutes. I've even been in a couple where it activates as soon as the driver hits the service brake.

2) if the driver turns the key straight from off over to the accessory position (without pausing at OFF), the driver will not need to deactivate the system. They will need to when they go to restart the bus, however


Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
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TheRide
Senior Member

107 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  05:24:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit TheRide's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We have Doran No. SCC-AM-01 on our older buses and it activiates when the master flasher switch is on and door has been used. At the end of route when the master flasher switch has been turned off and engine running and parking brake applied the driver then checks the bus as they walk to the rear to push the deactivate button. If the driver forgets and kills the engine the alarm immediately sounds. On our newer IC buses the system is integrated into the body controller and works very similar only difference is you can turn the master flasher off and not have to do anything with deactivation until the engine has stopped and key in accessary with park brake applied. Then it beeps at you until the alarm has been turned off from the rear of the bus. Hope this helps. We have child alarms on all our buses.
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tigger2
Advanced Member

USA
469 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  05:26:31 AM  Show Profile  Click to see tigger2's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
We use Child Minder and Check Mate. We retrofitted all of the busses with the check mate system in 2003 and as the new C-2's came with the Child Minder system we started to use them. One word of importance if the bus uses a low impedance buzzer for the rear door warning at the front of the bus the Check mate system need more resistance than that and we replaced the electronic buzzer with an older metal style buzzer. Both do what you ask as far as armed with the red's and ability to turn switch to acc. As far as who turns off the system we still have to remind drivers that the responsibility is the drivers!
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  05:38:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We run Homebound systems. They turn on 5 minutes after the 8-ways have been activated. This way you're not going back there and canceling it every time you check your 8-ways. After the run when you go to turn them off you can either leave the bus running to turn them off (so you can check it at the end of the route before returning to the yard) or you can turn the bus off & then deactivate the system. You can turn the key to the acc. position without setting it off. They hook up to the dome lights so they come on when you turn the bus off (law in my state) and activate the horn when it is set off. They work quite well and I have had very little trouble with them. Hope this helps.

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  06:50:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So the homebound and child minder systems will allow a driver to turn to accessory when they arrive at the school and will not alarm when they open the door to unload? The thing will alarm if they shut the key off and open the door, as in at the end of the route? Is that correct?
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  07:17:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, if you don't reset the system by going to the back of the bus and pushing a button the horn will honk when the door is opened. There is no way to defeat this system, you have to go to the back of the bus and push the button. Which IS the point. lol I've been running these for about 10 years now and I really like them. I have many of them that I've had for the entire 10 years and I've had no problems with them. The problems I have had are mostly to do with a ground issue, it's very important to get a good ground when you install it or you will be pulling your hair out trying to chase problems. I have had a couple boxes go bad but the company has replaced them. I haven't had to call the company in a while but when I was installing them, they gave me the home phone number of the engineer who designed the thing! I couldn't believe I was talking to the guy who made it. Really nice fellow, I think he was retired but still helping the company. It was nothing to start talking to him about fishing or something after you had your questions answered. lol

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  09:14:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, so just to make 100% sure...I can go pick up kids...go to the school, turn the key back to accessory (since diesels are bad and global warming is going to drown us all in a firey flood), then open my doors to unload those kids WITHOUT the thing alarming?

I know it will however alarm if I turn the key off and open the door without disarming the system.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  09:34:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, that is correct, if you have power to the correct wire in the system on acc. or run positions. It will not go off if you pass the off position. The way it works is when the key is in the off position it will start beeping from the box and will keep beeping until you go to the back and push the button. If you turn it back on (apply power to the correct wire) the system goes back into run mode and will not start beeping again until power is removed. Clear as mud? lol

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  11:45:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome....that's exactly the info I needed. Thanks all!
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krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  12:41:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
so after a couple years, which systems do you guys like better?
Gov of California just signed a bill that requires a child check system. so as soon as the highway patrol decides on a list of products and how they should be installed, inspected, training on use yadda yadda, ill have to get these on all my buses.

-Ken-
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  12:59:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All they do is force the driver, (one of their kids or a student ) to go to the back of the bus and push a button, it does not ensure the driver also does a meaningfull check. There have still been cases of children sleeping on the floor left on a bus.
You can usually change the trigger wire to what ever you want, activate by lights, time, brake input. There are many configurations, we seem to have them all. Very interesting at the start of the school year, horns blowing in the yard :)
Many drivers have one of the students push the button when they get to the school waiting for the teachers to come out so they can let the students off. Then once unloaded they do their physical child check.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2016 :  05:27:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a lot of intricacies in these laws. Here in Illinois you are to check your bus after you get back to where you are going to park your bus. LOL, when your last stop is 20 miles from where you park your bus you better be checking that thing right after you get done. Still, we tell our drivers to check them twice, once after the last stop and once after they get back. Illinois also requires that the lights come on after you turn the key off. Malfunction of this feature is an out of service event. It gets really hard to keep up with these laws. In my opinion, the solution to this is to pay drivers quite a bit better so you can attract and retain quality drivers and you are going to see much, much less of the problems like torque was describing. We have a really good crew right now and I wish I could give them all a $5 an hour raise!

Bryan
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2016 :  11:45:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We us Doran on BlueBirds and whatever IC installs on their buses. Rarely have trouble out of either. I personally like the ones that arm after a few minutes without activating the lights, yes it's a pain to get up and disarm all the time, however, we do have some buses that do shuttle runs and special needs that never have to activate the 8 way lights. So this makes the drivers do the checks.

In my 13 years in the school bus business I have only seen bus drivers get fired for two reasons, drug testing and leaving children on buses. Out of 4 drivers fired for leaving kids on the buses, 3 were special needs with an aid on the bus. The driver never activated the 8 ways lights and dome dropped the aid off before the run was done. I believe 2 of the buses were older ones with out the child reminder system.

Those are the reasons why we have the child reminder systems on buses. We have them on all of our buses 2003 and newer and hardly have any trouble with either system.

US Army retired CMBT
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2016 :  1:12:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our drivers are required to notify us of anything left on the bus, pencil case, sweater, cell phones etc. That helps a little bit to monitor which drivers actually do a visual check and not just push the button. Dispatch makes a note of anything. Then if a parent or student calls in wondering if they found their jacket on the bus, they check the log, if the log says no, then ask they driver to double check and amazingly they now find a jacket on the floor. Busted :)
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