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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2014 : 11:27:03 AM
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Has anybody else had issues with T444E surge tanks spewing coolant out of the cap all over the place? We have replaced bad caps, but they still overflow out. We have found that the caps also don't seem to last very long, typically replacing within year of initial replacement. We were thinking of trying a higher PSI cap, but not sure if this is a good idea.
Any feedback is much appreciated. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2014 : 12:03:30 PM
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| Do your T444es run hotter than they should, especially on extended operation at highway speeds? |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2014 : 12:59:59 PM
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| What is hotter than they should? To my knowledge, we have not had any issues with overheating. Pretty sure they all run under 210, and I'm also pretty sure they all run the higher temp thermostat, and yes some highway speeds. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2014 : 1:24:57 PM
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| The problem we have had with the T444es is the radiators loosing efficiency over time, as this happens the viscous fan clutch engages less and less as it is not able to accurately sense coolant temp. This may or may not contribute to spewing coolant. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2014 : 2:33:07 PM
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| I would say that could be a contributing factor, but as many as we have that are doing it, I can't imagine that is the case for everyone of them. Also some of them have the electric fan clutch as opposed to the viscous. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2014 : 2:43:21 PM
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| We upgraded our 444 buses with 4 row radiators instead of the 3 row that came from factory, made all the difference in the world. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 04:34:20 AM
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| The electric fan clutch will help mask problems with radiators that have lost efficiency as they do operate off a coolant sensor in the engine block. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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slippert
Top Member
USA
630 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 04:46:14 AM
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I see simalar issues on mine but all engines I have are 466's ... and keep in mind my busses are scattered all over so I rely on drivers to do more pre checks and add fluids sometimes...
Biggest problem I have is system being filled to full mark or higher cold and as coolant expands with warmup is over full, liquid has to go somewhere.. without a coolant recovery tank it goes out cap all over under hood..... also the rougher the roads or more gravel on a particular route here.. the worst the problem seems |
Edited by - slippert on 04/25/2014 04:52:40 AM |
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Tb4020
Senior Member
United States
82 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 05:37:49 AM
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| If you keep them at the full line they'll spew. I let mine stay at or just below the add line and that helped a lot with no change in performance. |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 06:15:23 AM
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We typically don't fill them up to the full line because of this issue. We keep them right at the seem on the tank about an inch above the add line.
Not sure that changing out radiators is much of an option at this point as it does get costly. We have, however, upgraded to the heavier duty radiators when we have one that rusts out to the point of no return. I haven't paid attention to whether or not these ones are still having this issue, but I will check when I get a chance.
Thanks for all the help everyone. Good to see that others are having similar issues as well and getting different takes on this issue. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 08:04:26 AM
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| If you have some buses that do it and some that don't, you might try scanning some radiators with one of those point and read thermometers to see if you can determine any differences between the ones that do and don't........ |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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Farmridge
Senior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2014 : 10:08:38 AM
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| We have one the is dumping diesel into the cooling system. |
If you can't handle the answer, don't ask the question |
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57fan
Senior Member
United States
148 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2014 : 12:18:45 AM
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We have had similar issues with all our 05 FE's with 466. We have found that the gauges read up to 210 deg and pretty much stay there even if the engine sees 235 or above. we have never figured out the gauge issues but we have found that our radiators are clogging up in the upper half and no cooling efficiently. the fan hubs are not getting hot enough to engage and cool off the radiator. We were told by a couple workers in Conway that IC puts lots of stop leak in there cooling systems when the buses are built to stop minor leaks. Well over time it is killing the radiators. We have tried using every kind of flush on the market and nothing worked. Now we are replacing radiators, most fan hubs and adding new thermostats. Since the temps were in the 210 plus range it causes the cap to release pressure / coolant. once all the parts are replaced they run 190 under load. So check your radiator temperature when they come off the road. check all 4 corners and make sure that the temps are about the same top to bottom and side to side. with 50% of the radiator plugged the remainder has to do all the work and the coolant will go thru so fast that it wont cool much if at all. We have also had lots of thermostat failures both open and closed. Even had a dozen or so actually brake apart and cause heating issues. so take a close look and see what your can find.
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Lead, Follow or get out of the way! Thomas Paine |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2014 : 05:33:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 57fan
We have had similar issues with all our 05 FE's with 466. We have found that the gauges read up to 210 deg and pretty much stay there even if the engine sees 235 or above. we have never figured out the gauge issues but we have found that our radiators are clogging up in the upper half and no cooling efficiently. the fan hubs are not getting hot enough to engage and cool off the radiator. We were told by a couple workers in Conway that IC puts lots of stop leak in there cooling systems when the buses are built to stop minor leaks. Well over time it is killing the radiators. We have tried using every kind of flush on the market and nothing worked.
I can attest to the evidence of the FE buses from Conway having large quantities of stop leak in the cooling systems. So far no overheating issues on our 2006 or 2007 but we don't have viscous fan drives.
What we do have is lots of stop leak crud fouling the pressure cap and clogging the fill tube. Its so bad that I no longer even try to fill the system by removing the pressure cap, what I do is remove the top sight glass and temporarily screw in a 1/2" pipe with elbow and funnel and poor coolant in through there. I should also mention when I had the sight glasses out, I had to scrape the stop leak crud out of those with a screw driver so I could monitor the coolant level. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 05/12/2014 05:35:16 AM |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2014 : 06:21:12 AM
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| Thanks for the info. I will do some checking on some of the radiators and see what the results are. These are all conventional style buses that we have with this issue, but I wouldn't think that would make a big deal if it is a cooling system design/manufacture flaw. Assuming that we do have some radiator issues, more than likely, we will not be able to just start replacing radiators left and right. On the ones that have an electric fan setup, would changing the fan ON/OFF temperature settings to lower points help? It may be at least a somewhat temporary solution for the time being. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2014 : 12:48:51 PM
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As long as the electric fans are engaging at 210 F I don't think I would fool with them.
I would make sure cooling system is fully bled of air and you do not have combustion gases getting into cooling system.
Not worry so much where the cold coolant level is, just keep the hot coolant level about at the seam.
If the pressure caps test bad keep replacing them, maybe try a different vendor. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2014 : 1:19:11 PM
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| I was thinking that we could maybe try caps that are meant for the Ford pickups, but they are 13# caps as the International ones are 10# caps. Not sure if it would make a huge difference performance wise, but was thinking that it may actually help with keeping coolant from spewing so easily. |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2014 : 06:53:07 AM
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| Update: We have done like Tb4020 said and lowered the level of the coolant again to just below the word "Add" and we are trying that. Downside to this is that we have had to disconnect coolant level sensors which made a couple drivers and a trainer go crazy, not that they were beeping, but because they just know that we're gonna be blowing up engines with the level that low. ;) |
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T444E Surge tanks
