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anointedpiano77
New Member

United States
3 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2007 :  12:48:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am new to the forum and have a techinical question:

We have purchased a 1988 Blue Bird bus. It currently has a manual jack knife door. Is there anyway we can convert this door to an air operated door? If so, how expensive or complicated is it?

Thanks!

thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4413 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2007 :  2:16:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I can't answer your question on the cost, others on here might have done it before and will be able to help you out. You can convert from a manually controlled door to an air or electric door. Personally I'd go with air over electric, both have positives and negatives however air is the way to go. I'm assuming the bus has an air supply since you are asking but if it doesn't an accessory tank will have to be added.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2181 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2007 :  7:23:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Call Ralph @ 812-874-2216 He can get you parts and factory install prints.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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kd4jfd
Top Member

USA
1168 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2007 :  3:52:32 PM  Show Profile  Click to see kd4jfd's MSN Messenger address  Send kd4jfd a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
My question would be WHY? It's much better and safer to have a manual door.
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JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2007 :  03:04:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've seen operators give up on the air/electric systems on Thomas and Blue Bird models in the past when getting parts wasn't worth the expense. They simply went out and removed the door control from a scrap bus and re-installed in on the other one. I prefer manual doors when it comes to reliability as its rare to hear of a breakdown.

JC
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anointedpiano77
New Member

United States
3 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2007 :  11:51:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your responses. The only reason I wanted to switch from a manual door to an air door is convenience for the driver. I was not looking to put out a lot of expense, just thought I would put out some feelers anyway. Thanks for your help! Maybe before long we can afford to buy a new C2 or Vision. Until then....
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JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2007 :  03:50:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hate to sound harsh but tell the driver to suck it up and use a manual door. It won't kill him or her, and will be reliable in the end.
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03CV200
Top Member

United States
740 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2007 :  05:03:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit 03CV200's Homepage  Send 03CV200 an AOL message  Click to see 03CV200's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
My bus driver's bus has a manual door; however, she would prefer an air or electric door. The bus she drove before this one had an electric door, and once she started working for a new contractor, she got a manual door. Here only complaint is that she has short arms and must stretch out there to pull the door closed. Her bus is a 2001 BB Chevy


-Dave
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KJHill
Senior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2007 :  5:37:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault

Hate to sound harsh but tell the driver to suck it up and use a manual door. It won't kill him or her, and will be reliable in the end.




Well, it may not kill him or her, but it could cause injuries. We have several drivers at our garage who have suffered injuries to their shoulders (one to the point of having to have surgery) due to the manual door jumping out of the track while operating the door. Its harsh on the body to have the door all of a sudden come to a halt while you are in the middle of opening it. Those manual doors are very hard on the wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints.
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BusBoy 1
Advanced Member

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2007 :  7:24:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you for real? What kind of buses do you have? What kind of drivers do you have?
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KJHill
Senior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2007 :  7:15:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I am for real. We have all kinds of busses. Thomas, IC, Blue Birds. They range in age from new models (all with air doors) to 22 years, and yes they are out on the road every day. The driver who needed surgery on both her wrist and shoulder is in her 30's and now has a doctors note that requires her to driver only air operated door busses due to the chance of reinjury operating a manual door. We have another driver in her 40's who has a dr.'s note due to a shoulder injury caused by the manual door, and a third driver in her 60's who is going through rehab from a shoulder injury caused by manual doors. I don't know if you have ever had the experience of a door jumping out of its track while opening or closing it, but I can tell you from experience that it hurts.

And I am sure if you asked a health care professional about the repetitive motion of opening and closing a manual door upwards of 120 times a day they would tell you how the wear and tear on your joints is not good for you. If a simple task of typing on a computer keyboard is considered dangerous (carpal tunnel), then it should only make sense that opening and closing a bus door hundreds of times a day over time can cause injury.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4177 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2007 :  10:04:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Personally I enjoy having some manual doors, but the district where I grew up had converted 17 of its buses to have air operated doors for the reasons KJHill mentioned. So a conversion is something that can be done, and has been done.
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BusBoy 1
Advanced Member

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2007 :  10:28:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 43 years this school has been in operation and we've had busing for that long and we have never had a reported injury from a bus door and we have only had one air door ever. I Guess we grow our people stronger in N.DAK.
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JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2007 :  5:43:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 15+ years around the bus industry I've never had a door jump its track. I think proper preventative door maintenance is something that helps, such as making sure the jacknife door hinges aren't letting the rearward panel slant downwards, that the top and bottom guides are properly aligned and that the door system is properly lubricated. I'd suggest that jacknife doors were much easier on the wrist and arm compared to outward opening ones, if working properly, just because the door can 'glide' from open to close with minimal effort.

But a properly adjusted/maintained outward system can't be that hard on the body. My worst daily routing saw me doing some 135 passenger stops each day. So thats 270 opening and closing actions with the Thomas outward doors at the time. That didn't include other door operations such as railway crossings etc. And it doesn't include shuttle and charter loading/unloading. Times 270 x 187 days and you've got a minimum of 50,490 pull and pushes on the door control per school year.

Like BysBoy_1 said, guess some areas grown em stronger.

JC
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KJHill
Senior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2007 :  8:24:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault

In 15+ years around the bus industry I've never had a door jump its track. I think proper preventative door maintenance is something that helps, such as making sure the jacknife door hinges aren't letting the rearward panel slant downwards, that the top and bottom guides are properly aligned and that the door system is properly lubricated. I'd suggest that jacknife doors were much easier on the wrist and arm compared to outward opening ones, if working properly, just because the door can 'glide' from open to close with minimal effort.

But a properly adjusted/maintained outward system can't be that hard on the body. My worst daily routing saw me doing some 135 passenger stops each day. So thats 270 opening and closing actions with the Thomas outward doors at the time. That didn't include other door operations such as railway crossings etc. And it doesn't include shuttle and charter loading/unloading. Times 270 x 187 days and you've got a minimum of 50,490 pull and pushes on the door control per school year.

Like BysBoy_1 said, guess some areas grown em stronger.

JC



Or it could be your transportation department just takes care of the busses better than our does. I doubt seriously that the doors were lubricated even one time in the years that they have been on the lot. And I don't think preventative maintenance is something our mechanics know anything about. They are to busy duct taping together our old fleet to do preventative maintenance on any of the busses. The place is a joke. It takes upwards of 6 months to have a clearance light replaced.
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Peter
Top Member

USA
1057 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2007 :  3:25:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How do you pass state inspections every year?

Spicer is nicer.
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baptistbusman
Advanced Member

USA
301 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2007 :  5:12:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
imagine all of that work for her finger pushing that button over and over and over. poor thing....


1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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raytobe
Advanced Member

USA
293 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2007 :  8:24:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit raytobe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We have those darn top mounting pins break loose on the air doors of the Int REs. You have to cut an access hole into the body with a angle grinder and re-weld a new pin back in, only to have the new pin break loose in a year or so, it's a pain. The bushings also wear badly on the bottom and the doors will start to hang up although replacing the bushings is fairly easy. I hate em.
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KJHill
Senior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  02:55:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by baptistbusman

imagine all of that work for her finger pushing that button over and over and over. poor thing....



Well, that is tough, but fortunately I have 10 fingers i can alternate with, where as I only have 2 shoulders and using the left one is kinda tough.

Right now though the hardest part with the push button is chasing it around the steering wheel.

And go ahead a laugh all you want. Fact is we have had injuries caused by the manual doors, serious enough to require surgery, yet haven't had that problem with air doors.
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KJHill
Senior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  02:59:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peter

How do you pass state inspections every year?



That is a very good question, and one that I wonder about all the time. I really don't know, because there are busses on our lot that don't belong on the road, yet they are out there.
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JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  07:40:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KJHill

quote:
Originally posted by Peter

How do you pass state inspections every year?



That is a very good question, and one that I wonder about all the time. I really don't know, because there are busses on our lot that don't belong on the road, yet they are out there.



Did it ever occur to you that perhaps an anonymous call to the authorities would bring in an unannounced inspection team to catch the operator off guard? You can't "*****" about a problem if you aren't willing to try and solve it by letting the proper agency know about the defects.

JC
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raytobe
Advanced Member

USA
293 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  10:18:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit raytobe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KJHill

quote:
Originally posted by Peter

How do you pass state inspections every year?



That is a very good question, and one that I wonder about all the time. I really don't know, because there are busses on our lot that don't belong on the road, yet they are out there.



Lawsuits just waiting to happen.
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BusBoy 1
Advanced Member

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  12:29:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Boy this really went off the topic the poor guy will never get his question answered!! Its funny to watch how topics can change like that.
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JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  2:07:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He got his question answered at the start. Some of us are just wondering why school bus drivers put up with shoddy maintenance.

JC
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2007 :  7:23:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[/quote]Right now though the hardest part with the push button is chasing it around the steering wheel.
[/quote]

Ain't that the truth. Not to mention the force that you have to put into those damn IC steering wheel switches after awhile. You might as well have one of those big heavy non lubricated jacknife doors.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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flyboy
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2007 :  12:39:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit flyboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We run about 200 buses from all manufacturers like Amtran and IC as well as Thomas and Bluebird.We spec power operated entrance doors because the workers comp issues aren't worth the savings with manual doors. It doesn't matter whose door you have none have been designed to operate for thousands of cycles without lots of maintenence. Air operated seems to work best but it has it's problems too. You don't see city transit buses with manual doors for a reason. Try opening a manual door 1 to 2 hundred times a day and your arm will fall off and if it don't it will hurt like *#@* real soon.
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KellRae
New Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2018 :  09:57:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any way I can get some instructions or diagram on replacing the bottom bushing? I know this is an old post Please!!! Lol

quote:
Originally posted by raytobe

We have those darn top mounting pins break loose on the air doors of the Int REs. You have to cut an access hole into the body with a angle grinder and re-weld a new pin back in, only to have the new pin break loose in a year or so, it's a pain. The bushings also wear badly on the bottom and the doors will start to hang up although replacing the bushings is fairly easy. I hate em.


I got this....
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