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littlebit
Advanced Member
424 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2005 : 09:33:29 AM
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It happened to me. Yesterday afternoon, I got back to the shop, put my bus in park, popped the airbrake, released my seat belt and stood up to open my door. I was beginning to head down the aisle, when a little boy popped his head up and said.."I missed my stop." Yes I think you did!!! He then said "I think I need to go home now." When I was questioning him, He admitted to falling asleep. The kicker of this was His stop is the very last stop, there are about 12 other kids that get off the bus here and HIS SISTER walked right past him asleep!!!! Not to mention, the fact that there was ANOTHER child sitting with him!!!!
I radioed my boss, told him I was parked at the shop and that I had just found a child and I was transporting him back to his stop. Noone ever called in about this child. Kinda sad. I know if only one of mine showed up at home, I would be on the phone ASAP!!! Back across town, I went, thru all the afternoon traffic and 20 minutes later I was back at the shop..DOUBLE CHECKING my bus!!! |
 Bus 34 |
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CountGirl
Top Member
USA
823 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2005 : 09:52:51 AM
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What a smart kid! 
Most of all though, good job to the post-checking driver...Congratulations, littlebit. *Hugs* It had to be scary but at least you found him (or he found him) and you were able to take him home.
Countgirl |
Give me a yellow object. Yes. Right now. I need my yellow chocolate, for goodness sake! |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2005 : 3:42:44 PM
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| Good job littlebit. I believe the child found the driver instead of her finding him. Anyways, I'm glad that the child is ok. |
Johnny
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 4:44:19 PM
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I didn't see anything about checking the bus and overlooking the child. Glad the child was discovered, however.
William |
William |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 5:10:04 PM
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yes you overlooked it william: "I was beginning to head down the aisle, when a little boy popped his head up"
JC |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 6:22:02 PM
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| I should have said I didn't see anything about checking the bus for sleepers at the last stop, which is what we're required to do here. Actually, anytime we leave the bus, except of course during escorted crossovers, we're required to do a sleeper check. That is our company's policy all across the U.S. |
William |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 6:40:50 PM
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Many routes don't provide a safe place to pull over at the last stop, especially when rush hour is starting. Checking the bus upon your return to the garage is just as good.
JC |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 6:56:24 PM
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I don't disagree with that. The only thing is that in our company, nationally, if you bring a child back to the yard, you are automatically and immediately fired, period.
William |
William |
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littlebit
Advanced Member
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 06:51:19 AM
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Well Thank goodness it's not that way here. I have been driving for 7 years and this is the second time this has ever happened to me. The first time, the other children that got off at the stop thought it would be "funny" if the child was left on the bus. I let them know it wasn't funny and it never happened again until this past Friday. I only carry k-2nd graders so all of the children involved in that incident has moved on to another school.
As for what happened Friday, I don't know only two of the children that rode Friday rode this am and they were both sitting up near the front of the bus. So I don't think they saw him asleep. These children are usually very good about checking the bus for me while they are exiting the bus. At this stop, there is no way that I can get up and check my bus for sleeping kids. It is a very very busy street and I always have traffic backed up 3 ways.
I always walk my bus when I get back to the shop in the afternoons or at the fueling station before I step foot off my bus. I do walk it in the mornings at the school, so if I find one then I can just wake them up and send them in. |
Bus 34 |
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gonzosbus
Senior Member
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 08:59:58 AM
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| Our Drivers are also required to check their buses at or near the last bus stop. Even if it means pulling into a parking lot to check their bus. There is always a spot to check somewhere along the way. Even at the last stop it only takes a few seconds to walk the aisle (even in a 40 footer)I just went out and checked and did it in 17 seconds at a brisk pace. Im not trying to get on anyones bad side for not checking but what would of happened had you not checked? I know how drivers can be at times and even some of my drivers dont check some times. This just gave me another subject for our drivers meeting tommorrow. Thanks, Armando Cuellar,Madison Elem SD #38, Phoenix Arizona. |
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littlebit
Advanced Member
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 3:15:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gonzosbus
Im not trying to get on anyones bad side for not checking but what would of happened had you not checked? .
Nothing would have happened because I NEVER NEVER Exit my bus without checking and double checking it. I have to walk to the back for the child search system that is in place anyway. So I check it once going back and once coming up, then I get down in the stairwell and check to make sure nothing is under the seats. I even check behind any subs that happen to ride with me! |
Bus 34 |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
3880 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 6:05:36 PM
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You did a great job, Littlebit. The important thing is that you found the child... It doesn't matter where. I don't know what the difference could be in checking at the end of the run or at the last stop, besides a slightly longer ride for the child that got left onboard.
Once again, great work littlebit. You're doing your job very well!  |
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BlueBird44
Top Member
USA
1637 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 6:28:56 PM
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Littlebit good job in finding the child shows your actually doing your job checking the bus. To me it dosen't matter where you check the bus as long as it is checked before you leave it. Some stops there is no safe place to check your bus before going back to the yard.
So good job Littlebit. |
IC-The Golden Shield of School Transportation |
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myschoolbusorg
Active Member
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 7:31:22 PM
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Good job of being alert.
I instituted the use of the "BOB" sheet. (Back Of Bus) Every driver must initial after every trip. It's simply proof that the bus has been checked and tends to force the habit. No sign = no job
It has been very effective and has not generated any complaints, in fact the drivers like it. I also initiated the recording time of pick-up, drop-off. There had been complaints of pick-up times varying. After we started recording the times, there have been zero complaints. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 8:34:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... The only thing is that in our company, nationally, if you bring a child back to the yard, you are automatically and immediately fired, period.
William
So they would fire Littlebit? Tells me everything I need to know about the operation you work for. (jk)
'Post-Checking' the bus: The last walk toward keeping kids safe
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 9:36:37 PM
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Not just Littlebit. Me also. What it should tell you about the operation I work for is that they are requiring everyone to do thier jobs as defined and to be accountable if they do not. There was no intention to denigrate Littlebit, but I have been driving more than twice as long as she, and I have never brought a child back to the base. During that time only one driver at our location has been fired for bringing a child back.
William |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:01:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... There was no intention to denigrate Littlebit, but I have been driving more than twice as long as she, and I have never brought a child back to the base. ...
An administration fired a driver, doing so even prior to a doctor determining injury, if any, or a court of law determining criminal blame, if any?
Neither you, Littlebit or any decent school bus driver ought to be subjected to this kind of draconian treatment. So many great and decent employers to work for - so many that measure their authority, appreciate the decent and restrain themselves from destroying decent persons careers.
"I have never brought a child back alone," means nothing but is not quite as contemptible sounding as saying, I will never bring a child back alone. I check my bus at every school, releasing the kids seat by seat, and do post checks, not because of some jerk-acting employer's threats or policies that constantly threaten the decent, but simply because violence prevention training and safe practices research that helps me keep the bus a safe place recommends walking the bus while releasing the students at school and doing post checks for several reasons - and now including checking for a sleeping child.
My first several years I never checked the bus for a sleeping child, nor has recent state PTS training even mentioned this issue, and in recent months the NHTSA hasn't sent an alert on this issue that I can find. Should be one every once in a while I would think. No so-called state PTS class has ever mentioned sleeping children in my state. I got my insight from national violence prevention experts and the very best school bus drivers and administrators out there, the least of which demonstrate more expertise than apparently the employer you're working for.
You and your fellows scare me worse than any employer could. To accept a throw-away school bus driver mentality is beyond my understanding and is indecent, in my opinion. My opinion and best recommendation to any bus driver at your facility inadvertently bringing a sleeping child back to the lot is simply this:
Turn the child over to another driver or staff and automatically and immediately quit - doing so before the administration can act out their despicable conduct toward the decent. Having already explained to the child what happened, then let the child explain to the driver and management what happened. Walk away without comment to anyone but the child, nothing negative and thanking the child for doing well. Make no comment of any kind to staff, not then and not later, not ever except by a personal injury attorney's direction. Sign nothing, discuss nothing, do not meet! Refer their inquiries and phone calls to your personal injury attorney, who in-turn can challenge them and litigate any slanderous or libelous comments they might make about the driver at any time. Find that attorney who knows "when quitting means getting fired," that understands how that works and how to deal with an employer subjecting employees to that kind of maltreatment. Also past and current employees treated this way can contact the state representative working on employer anti-bullying legislation with their comments.
Sometimes dealing with an excessive employer demands responding in kind with an authority sufficient to rattle their cages worse than they tried to rattle and traumatize their decent employees.
I do wish it didn't have to be that way, but with employers acting out like yours' apparently does, then requires professional bus drivers keeping a personal injury attorney on retainer first and before driving a school bus for such operations.
Have a nice day. (jk)
The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute
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Edited by - JK on 01/25/2005 10:43:25 AM |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:50:38 AM
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"Sometimes dealing with an excessive employer demands responding in kind with an authority sufficient to rattle their cages worse than they tried to rattle and traumatize their decent employees.
I do wish it didn't have to be that way, but with employers acting out like yours' apparently does, requires professional bus drivers keeping a personal injury attorney on retainer first and before driving a school bus for such operations."
Well said JK. Just wish some employers would look at their management practices and that some drivers would stop "bending over" to accept whatever the employer tosses in their direction :)
JC
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 09:30:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault
"Sometimes dealing with an excessive employer demands responding in kind with an authority sufficient to rattle their cages worse than they tried to rattle and traumatize their decent employees.
I do wish it didn't have to be that way, but with employers acting out like yours' apparently does, then requires professional bus drivers keeping a personal injury attorney on retainer first and before driving a school bus for such operations."
Well said JK. Just wish some employers would look at their management practices and that some drivers would stop "bending over" to accept whatever the employer tosses in their direction :)
JC
You've found the root cause of dysfunctional policies - the dysfunctional employees that support them. I cannot understand the indecent behavior of decent employees toward their fellows, some so confused they even act out indecently toward themselves. Needing money is hardly an excuse toward prostituting ones' own dignity, and especially when the policy may be unlawful and most certainly does NOTHING to help keep kids safe. Regardless, employers can win this one, careers ruined, loss of unemployment wages and the courts often siding with the employer when this potential mistake is not addressed in policy or union contracts requiring a measured discipline procedure. (jk)
Rosetown bus driver unsuccessful in lawsuit
Why Quitting Is Back
The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute
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Edited by - JK on 01/25/2005 9:29:23 PM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 9:04:49 PM
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| Good job Littlebit! I check my bus two or three times. I put my dome lights on too when it's too dark. I have no safe place other than the yard to pull over to check for kids. That's a crazy rule william! Sure doesn't sound like a Laidlaw branch! |
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Salaskie
Advanced Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 10:02:38 PM
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I would hire you in a heart beat Littlebit. You exhibit the care and conscientiousness a responsible employer seeks.
Our drivers would never leave the drivers seat in a traffic situation. Or on a narrow icy road, etc. William, why would the bus barn be unsafe for a child? A driver should be disciplined...however policy dictates...whenever they do something that puts a child in danger. Our students see the buses, employees, and their office as a safe haven.
Again, thank you littlebit, for being a professional  |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:51:03 PM
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Not only is this the policy of my company, it is also the policy of the school district that contracts our services. There is one other contract company driving for the school district here. This is always a topic for discussion and is covered in original and in-service training. Laidlaw is no longer a contractor for this district, but they were for several years, so they adhered to that policy. I know this because Laidlaw was the first company I worked for. I do not see the point in calling drivers employed by one of this nation's largest school bus transportation companies, and the second largest school district in this state, prostitutes, dysfunctional or unprofessional. You are entitled to your opinions, however, no matter how off the wall, crass and knee-jerk they may be. Salaskie, your statement that your drivers would never leave the driver's seat in a traffic situation is something drivers here are required, by law, to do each time an elementary school student crosses the street in front of our bus, whether the the bus is empty or full of children. You also asked me why a bus yard would be unsafe for a child, but since this question does not seem to be serious, I will simply say that the bus barn is probably more safe than those narrow icy roads you drive upon in Alaska. What I personally think about those policies is immaterial. I have to abide by them the same as anyone else who works for this company or district.
William |
William |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 12:12:43 AM
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You'd think that getting out of and crossing in front of your own bus (loaded or empty) would put you in danger of being in an accident then possibly being unable to get back to the children aboard your bus.
And even though the park brake is set, no one is going to tell me that a heavy enough vehicle with enough speed isn't going to push that stopped bus ahead, especially on a rain covered roadway. Then we get into if the driver is off the bus then who is watching the kids aboard who are probably standing up when the rear-end collision occurs.
JK is right when he says that employees contribute to these rules being enforced by refusing to question the common sense factor. I still believe that your employer and the school board should look into the part that bringing a child back to the bus yard is enough to warrant a dismissal as its not like you abandoned the child by not checking.
The rule makers (ie. politicians) need to give their head a shake if they think standing in front of your own bus on a busy road with children aboard is a smart move.
JC |
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Salaskie
Advanced Member
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 12:24:33 AM
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William, I do respect your compliance with your company policies. It was never a personal attack on you, just a discussion. The transportation industry has improved over the years because we discuss and share safety issues.
I know that some states/districts require the driver to escort the students that cross the street. Is it law or policy in your area? Do you have a monitor on your bus?
It was a serious question/comment about taking a child to the bus barn/office. Generally speaking...the elementary school is empty of staff by the time we complete our routes. Parents know their child will be well cared for in our office. We call the parents and arrange for someone to meet the child when we bring them home.
Thank you William, for your commitment to safety. At the end of the run, if all our children make it home safely, it's been a good day.
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 09:13:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... I do not see the point in calling drivers employed by one of this nation's largest school bus transportation companies, and the second largest school district in this state, prostitutes, dysfunctional or unprofessional. You are entitled to your opinions, however, no matter how off the wall, crass and knee-jerk they may be.
William
Nice try. Suggesting those of us in adamant disagreement with the policy you work under to somehow be, "off the wall, crass and knee-jerk" like reactions. This issue has been thought-through and discussed here for some two years or more and hardly fits your assessment toward an opposing position.
You're right, however, that your mindset at this point, can not perceive the rational of the criticism toward your employer's policy or you and your fellows tolerating indecent treatment. As said before, the disgusting management behavior from your employer is revealed very quickly and relevant by simply knowing the dedication to duty Littlebit demonstrates and the scapegoating attitude that she would be subjected to for bringing a sleeping child back to the bus lot at your workplace.
You and your fellows have every right to subject yourselves to unprofessional and indecent treatment. It is not appropriate, however, to expect the rest of us to join in agreement with dysfunctional attitudes from drivers or employers that maltreat their bus drivers.
Equally right and valid is the concern that you and your fellows scare me worse than any employer could. To accept a throw-away school bus driver mentality, which is what you seem to support, is beyond my understanding and is indecent, in my opinion. It is also a dangerous attitude in my opinion that can infect other providers attempting to build a professional fleet.
A driver subjected to the policy can end up denied due process representation, retirement benefits, unemployment insurance and scapegoated out the door for no other reason then for the convenience and profit of the employer covering-up the actual problem. The policy does NOTHING to help keep kids safe and in reality does MORE HARM than good.
Under those circumstances I would think such employers have an obligation to inform in their advertising that they will destroy any bus driver's reputation and career that makes the mistake under discussion here:
"We are seeking good people that don't make mistakes. If you make unintentional mistakes on occasion, please to not apply here."
Be honest, be upfront in advertising for scapegoats to drive school buses.
Again, My opinion and best recommendation to any bus driver so desperate that they must prostitute their dignity and risk their career to work for your employer need a plan to subvert the maltreatment. In the event a driver at your facility inadvertently brings a sleeping child back to the lot, best to consider in advance what to do next:
Turn the child over to another driver or staff and automatically and immediately quit - doing so before the administration can act out their despicable conduct toward the decent. Having already explained to the child what happened, then let the child explain to the driver and management what happened. Walk away without comment to anyone but the child, nothing negative and thanking the child for doing well. Make no comment of any kind to staff, not then and not later, not ever except by a personal injury attorney's direction. Sign nothing, discuss nothing, do not meet! Refer their inquiries and phone calls to your personal injury attorney, who in-turn can challenge them and litigate any slanderous or libelous comments they might make about the driver at any time. Find that attorney who knows "when quitting means getting fired," that understands how that works and how to deal with an employer subjecting employees to that kind of maltreatment. Also past and current employees treated this way can contact the state representative working on employer anti-bullying legislation with their comments.
Tell these things and provide the story below to your fellows, management, the administration and school board, and let all decide, while heads are cool, what they might consider doing about that unjust policy.
Have a nice day. (jk)
'Post-Checking' the bus: The last walk toward keeping kids safe
The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute
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Edited by - JK on 01/27/2005 1:34:52 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 1:02:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault
... The rule makers (ie. politicians) need to give their head a shake if they think standing in front of your own bus on a busy road with children aboard is a smart move.
JC
Securing the bus and the bus driver crossing kids, when the parent is not there, does sound scary indeed, especially on school buses with defiant out-of-control children on-board and bus drivers with no authority to deal effectively with those children.
Regardless, I happen to agree with william and the employer on this specific issue, as scary as it sounds. It would seem, however, reasonable to demand the kids are well trained and under the direct authority of the driver. On a bus with untrained kids and no driver authority well established, the act of the driver leaving the bus to cross a child could certainly risk disastrous results.
I would have no fear at securing the bus and crossing a young child myself. The few on the bus that might pull something stupid I would expect intervened in by the kids trained to help me keep the bus a calm, safe place for all. It is a matter of training the kids and policy supporting the bus driver's authority to refuse to transport the defiant.
Still, the concept sounds scary, but I know this procedure to be a safe and effective way to cross young children. No bus driver or child has been run over or killed at school districts performing this procedure. No telling how many lives have been saved. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason some school buses are violent places
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bosslady
Advanced Member
USA
336 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 2:03:49 PM
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At the first of this year, I was subbing for one of our drivers. One who I had hardly ever subbed for as she is never gone. On the way home, I forgot a little girl who never rides the bus, she always rides with parents. She was so small I couldn't see her behind the tall seat. I didn't even know she was on until later when someone finally spoke up and said "you forgot Rachel."" I immediately called the school to call the parent and tell them what I had done. The parent was very nice about it and said I could drop her off on the way back as I go right by there. The only problem was, that put her on the wrong side of the highway. It's just a 2 lane but I don't want a 1st grader crossing a busy highway. I got off the bus and crossed her myself. Of course the bus was empty, but I felt much safer crossing her myself.
I would have done so even if the bus had students on it as they know I wouldn't tolerate any misbehavior while I was off the bus crossing her, and I will not let students cross a busy highway on their own.
I know their are a few state who have a law that bus drivers must get off their bus and help cross students. I don't know if there is an age limit on who must be taken across. Any help on that question? If you can't arrange your bus routes so that no one has to cross on busy streets or highways ( I'm sure it would be impossible in big cities, districts) then I don't haave a problem with bus drivers crossing the students.
I have driven a bus for 30 years and until a few years ago we didn't have a policy on checking our buses after every run. We had never heard of any child being left. Some drivers did just to check the bus for vandalism, items left.
We have a policy now that requires every driver to make a check. We have never addressed what we would do to the driver. I hope the school board would punish but not fire them.
We had a safety meeting about checking our buses this morning and I try to mention it at every safety meeting, just as I also mention the good practices of loading and unloading a school bus at every safety meeting held monthly. I also leave reading material about this on the drivers table. I try to find something new on both subjects. |
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littlebit
Advanced Member
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 4:10:37 PM
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I can see checking your bus at the last stop if the driver is required to cross the children at each stop. Already being up out of the driver's seat, walking to the back of the bus really doesn't add that much time to the stop.
Here we don't cross our children. I think I only have a total of 6 stops where children are required to cross in front of my bus. But those children don't step foot off the bus, until all traffic has come to a complete stop. So at the shop, is the best place for us to get up out of our seat and walk the bus.
Before we had the child check system in place, we had one driver that left a child alone on the bus. He was suspended for 3 days and chose on his own not to return to his job. As for me, when I radioed it in, my boss responded with Good Job...Thanks for checking your bus and finding him. Please let me know when you drop him at his stop. |
Bus 34 |
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CountGirl
Top Member
USA
823 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 4:43:53 PM
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Congratulations littlebit. "Good Job...Thanks for checking your bus and finding him." From all of us, [at SBF]....but I bet those were your favorite words from your boss you have ever heard! 
Countgirl |
Give me a yellow object. Yes. Right now. I need my yellow chocolate, for goodness sake! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 5:23:47 PM
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Today is International Damn Smart Woman's Day. And remember this motto to live by:
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, latte in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 9:18:27 PM
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| In the state of California, all children PK through 8th grade, inclusive, must be escorted by the driver when crossing in front of the bus. All others may be escorted. Drivers are also required to use an approved hand-held stop sign. It is scary having to leave the bus with children unattended no matter how well behaved they are when you're aboard. There have been instances where the driver has been shut out of the bus, cross-over lights deactivated, and on at least one occasion the parking brake released by a passenger. JK, I can see the rationale for your position. We can disagree or we can agee but it does not have to always be one or the other. But I still can see no point in calling people negative names simply because you don't agree with company policies. |
William |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 9:38:11 PM
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I personally am a supporter of checking the bus immediately after the last stop.
As pointed out, it only takes seconds to go through the bus and check for children. It is much easier to take those seconds at the last stop, then it is to drive to the yard, and drive all the way back out on the route to drop off a child who fell asleep.
And about the no place to stop issue, why not pull to the side of the road, leave on your hazard lights for the time it takes to scan the bus, and then get back on the road. If not directly at that stop, pull up to a place where it is possible. It's really not a valid argument, except in some very tight areas where pulling over is not an option. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 06:50:34 AM
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I think it's crazy that driver's have to leave the bus to cross a child. Just my opinion. Alls it takes is a "push" of that yellow parking knob and there you go, a moving bus, with our without a key. What about on those inclines? I get too scared of thinking what could happen. I hope they never require us to cross the children in Massachusetts. If they're that young to cross the road by themselves, maybe their parents should meet the bus and cross them. I just don't see how that could be safe, where the driver is to leave the school bus with kids on board. Just say you "thought" you had perfect children, but kids are kids and they'll do what kids will do if given the chance. I think that should be a federal law, banning all driver's from crossing the children. What a way to save money and not have to hire any monitors.
William, that rule doesn't make sense, yet people at my terminal are a little confused about the issue. Some wonder if they'll be fired if they get back to the yard and check the bus and find a sleeping child on board but have not yet left the bus. My last stop is a few hundred feet away from the bus yard, so I do not check the bus until I get back to the yard.
On the flip side, last year and the year before, my last run ended on the north side of town (15 minutes from the yard) and I did have a safe place to pull over and check the bus, so I did everyday. My opinion on this one is: if you have a safe place to pull over and it would be worth checking the bus because of the distance away from the yard, then do so. Unlike in my instance, the bus yard is the safest place to check for sleeping children, for me, at least this year.
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 10:35:17 AM
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| Having re-read my posts, I can see where they may have caused some confusion, forum members. By way of clarification, our policy refers to leaving a child alone and unattended on the bus in the yard. Not only the yard, but if you leave a child alone and unattended anyplace along the route, (escorted crossings excepted), you are subject to immediate termination. The way this works is this: you check for sleepers at your last drop-off, whether at a school or school bus stop. If you were enroute to the yard and had to stop someplace, you would again check for sleepers and place a "no sleeper" sign in the window before leaving the vehicle. When you returned to the bus, you would take the sign out of the window and then replace it before vacating the bus in the yard. What that means is that each time you leave the bus except in those circumstances I've already mentioned,you check for sleeping children and install the "no sleeper" sign. When you leave the bus to do an escorted crossing, Amtran RE, sometimes (but all the time) the bus is in immediate pandemonium. Kids running up and down the aisles, jumping over seats, and sometimes bouincing up and down in the drivers seat. When you return to the bus, they've returned to being the angels they were before you left. Should the crossover lights be cancelled, you are required to abort, and begin the operation over because even though you are required to use a hand held stop sign, motorists are required to react only to the flashing red lights. |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
6913 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 12:50:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... When you leave the bus to do an escorted crossing, Amtran RE, sometimes (but all the time) the bus is in immediate pandemonium. Kids running up and down the aisles, jumping over seats, and sometimes bouncing up and down in the drivers seat.
This is a disaster waiting to happen. Your facility scares me to no end. I'm not at all against the driver checking the bus for sleeping children prior to returning to the lot. And no objection to bus drivers crossing kids on a bus where proper training and bus driver support is evident and where parents have not yet been informed to accept some responsibility for their children. However, from what you've described I've been too kind in my posts and will leave it at that. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason some school buses are violent places
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John Farr
Top Member
USA
642 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 1:45:42 PM
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California is the only state that requires driver escort for front crossings. The procedure is carefully spelled out and is unambiguous. When I first arrived in the state I was apprehensive, but now see that this is the safest method of crossing students. William covered the downsides, but I feel the increase in safety makes this procedure a justified trade-off. Some things to consider:
1. because of the hassles and delays of shutting the engine off, getting off the bus and waiting until traffic is stopped for a safe crossing, and the previously mentioned student control issues on the bus, drivers avoid front crossings when possible. Drivers are very creative in finding same side pick ups/drop offs, and they work with schedulers to get the same side stops implemented as quickly as possible. For these reasons, front crossings are almost non-existant.
2. student fatalities, especially involving younger students, are frequently caused by their own school bus driver. As someone pointed out, students in the streen cannot be run over by the bus if the driver is in the street with them.
3. before getting back on the bus the driver checks under the bus for errant students.
4. once or twice a year in the state, while the driver is outside escorting, students, usually middle school age, release the bus brake, causing the bus to roll. The bus usually rolls into a fixed object, resulting in few, if any, injuries. I feel this is a far better option than the bus striking one of its students. Bus and property damage can be repaired. A life is lost forever.
5. by law, all newly enrolling students are issued a bus safety brochure, along with the correct school bus stop location.
Not surprisingly, pedestrian fatalities are almost non-existent in California. |
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Child Found asleep on bus.
