In a previous post I asked about steering difficulties we are experiencing with our Bluebird All American transit buses. This is an update about that situation-
This past Wednesday, 10-20-2004- I traveled to Cardinal Bus Sales in Lima, Ohio. I met with a senior engineer from Bluebird and several people from TRW. I was invited to observe the testing procedure to try and duplicate the steering complaint. The testing was very thorough and scientifically performed with all data recorded on a lap top computer. The test vehicle was a bus from Medina City Schools that had shown the same problem as mine- that is to say a 2002 or newer front engine All American. Two different pumps were installed on the bus and the same series of tests were performed. The problem did NOT occur during testing (of course!!!) TRW's position is that the power steering pumps are not "Priming" themselves for unknown reasons, hence the tests on the pumps. Several of my pumps had been removed earlier and had been sent to TRW for testing. A technician was sent to my place yesterday and all 8 of my buses will get new power steering pumps. I have filed complaints with the state of Ohio and NHTSA. Bluebird has expressed their very deep concern about this problem and I feel confident that a solution will be found.
I am posting this update to notify as many people as possible and ask that if you or any of your drivers have experienced "steering lockup" with these buses PLEASE notify your dealer or email me. This is a very troubling problem and the liability issues can not be ignored.
One of the new "bench tested" pumps that TRW replaced on my 8 buses locked up today during a mid-day Kindergarten run. Apparently their fix isn't quite there yet. Please be sure your buses aren't doing this as well.
So far the common denominator has been that after a route- generally ours are approximately an hour- the bus would be parked and shut off. During the hot restart the steering would be "locked." That was the term used by the drivers. After shutting down the engine and restarting the steering was normal. TRW's position is that the pump is not priming itself for whatever reason. They tell me that they cannot recreate this situation and they are concerned. They further tell me that the steering isn't locked- there is no power assist. In the one I observed the steering was locked. The question becomes what is "locked." In the four instances we have experienced this (with three different drivers)were very insistent that they could not turn the wheel at all. These are front engine Bluebirds and the steering is VERY heavy without power assist, however there is a difference between locked and no power assist. There was no warning at all. The last time this happened was after I had a meeting with all the drivers and explained the situation. To her credit she did what I told them and shifted the bus into neutral and pressed the accelerator and at some point the steering became free and she drove her route with no problems.
Probably too much information but I am very concerned about this problem. We have one third of our on the road fleet in these buses.
Have you checked the hoses for collapsing? I have a steering anylizer I use for the GM TRW made by Kent Moore. It's an essential tool at our dealership cost on this tool is a steep $800 plus adapters. I had an experience simalar in the past it, ended up being a hose. I did however have to replace a pump once on a CAT/GM setup. The steering would momentarly loose assist at low idle with your foot on the brake. It did not pass the pressure test.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson
You raise an interesting subject. I've seen that before also in a fuel line. I think that would be a good idea except TRW paid to have all 8 of our pumps replaced. One of the new "bench tested, hand assembled couldn't possibly fail" pumps failed exactly the same way as the others did. That one was replaced and so far so good. As this problem evolves I'm sure that TRW and Bluebird will be doing all they can to resolve the issue. I didn't know there was such a tester available.
Hmm, I'll ask around for simalar problems. We sold a few All Americans here in Southern Indiana. I haven't heard any concerns with steering yet. I have had 1 or 2 come in with the king pins dry and make steering difficult. I had a driveshaft fail on a RE a few weeks back due to lack of grease with 13k miles! Customer neglect? She swears it was serviced by the dealer in Indy she bought it from.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson
The people from Bluebird told the Ohio Highway Patrol investigating Officer that several buses in southern Indiana did this also. You may want to check around and see what the story is there.
Steering Update for Bluebird Operators
Posted - 10/22/2004 : 03:55:28 AM
