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wrenchmen
Senior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/21/2002 :  10:06:31 AM  Show Profile  Send wrenchmen an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
Our fleet has been experiencing a very large amount of Leece Neville 160 amp Alternator failures.
This is on 2002 BlueBird AARE's and TC/2000's.
All the failures have been either no charging at all or very high voltage output of 19 volts or higher. we have already replaced about 20 of them!
This alternator has a larger stator in it and has a black colored housing.model #AOO19804LC.
Has anyone else been having these failures?

wagonmaster
Top Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 11/21/2002 :  2:25:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For a nominal charge, you can upgrade to the 200 amp unit. FYI, It is not experiencing failures at a higher than normal rate.
Joe

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Brad Barker
Administrator

USA
862 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2002 :  7:01:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Brad Barker's Homepage  Click to see Brad Barker's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Wrenchmen, has replacing the alternators cured the problem? Have you had to do any other repairs to wiring or junctions in conjunction with the alternator replacements? Do you have a high pressure undercarriage wash for your fleet? I have heard of a lot of problems with this alternator in other fleets. How big is your fleet? What is the percentage of alternator repairs or replacements compared to the overall size of the fleet? I have 26 buses in my fleet, most of which use the leece-neville unit. We replace about four a year. You might want to try the Delco 31SI unit although I have had one of those fail recently too. We started purchasing the Leece Neville 280 amp on our rear engines and haven't had any problem with them so far.
Brad

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wrenchmen
Senior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2002 :  09:22:11 AM  Show Profile  Send wrenchmen an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
hello Brad;

We have 180 buses, 45 of which have this particular Alternator. we have replaced approx. half of these already and so far, the replacements have not failed.
All of the failed units were exchanged for warranty by our Blue Bird dealer. the first few exchanged were replaced with the same exact unit, But now they are giving us a different one 175 amps....and it is the same BlueBird part No........that has me wondering if there was a product update because of this problem.
After the first several failures I sent one to our rebuilder and the regulator was faulty, so it looks as if the regulators are failing prematurely.
We do not have a pressure wash system and most of the failures were on engines that have not been washed off as of yet {new buses, low mileage...all failures under 24,000 miles}
We have checked the wiring, grounds, cables draws....all is good. It is deffinatley faulty Alternators.
we have checked total amperage draw, and the 160 amp alternator is well within its range.

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toolbox
New Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2002 :  6:59:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had 20 TC2000RE'S with the same LN alternator to fail . /it either charged too much or not at all . The regulator was usually the culprit . I also found out that the BB dashes cannot take charging voltages much over 13.5V. I think heat may be the culprit . I found that LN has a new bidirectional cooling fan that I am going to try . Thanks Gene

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Brad Barker
Administrator

USA
862 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2002 :  2:53:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Brad Barker's Homepage  Click to see Brad Barker's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
My rebuilder just came up with a replacement alternator for me to try. It costs a little more than the L/N 160 amp but if it proves itself it will be worth it in the long run. It is a Powerline 200 amp alternator. It is the exact same dimension as the L/N and also has an externally adjustable regulator. The part number is a 25-10R. I do not know if that is Powerlines part number or my rebuilders own part number. If you cannot locate it by that number let me know. I will research it and get back to you.
Brad

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Bird Goin South
Active Member

45 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2003 :  09:29:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wrenchman,

1st forget going to your distributor with this type of problem BB has delt with this type of failure for 3 years now. this is why their offering of alternators include a Delco and only the largest alternators made by Leece Neville now. 2nd call BB directly @ (478) 825-2021 tell the receptionist that you need a service rep and explain to them what your problem is. 3rd if you can get any help out of the service rep call back and ask for Kevin Hayes, Tim Lacy or Mike Layfield. These guys are the service dept higher-ups in that order. from top to bottom. They will then goto your distributor and work out a fix with them. In Southern states the fix was to send the customer the largest alternator Leece Neville offered. One thing though are the units A/C equipped? This maybe your problem.

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Jose Jiminez
Senior Member

USA
60 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2003 :  2:35:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mr. Wagonmaster, Sir

How you get the 200A L/N alternator to fit the Blue Bird TC/2000 or TCFE with the Cummins 5.9 or ISB. You no butcher, yes?

I try and it hit the oil filter. Maybe you cut the heatsink, right? Is the 55mm pulley good to use on this setup? Why you no use the 270Amp?

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wagonmaster
Top Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2003 :  8:49:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These buses are BBAA RE's with Cummins ISC engines. We convert them all to 270amp eventually. We spec the 270 on new units, now. It's a bolt in deal, we no butcher.
Joe

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UncleNeal
Senior Member

USA
153 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2003 :  08:01:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We were experiencing the same problems, but after shopping around, we found an alternator rebuilding shop and we have had no problems since... (it is also less expensive), you might try that.

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Brad Barker
Administrator

USA
862 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2003 :  6:02:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Brad Barker's Homepage  Click to see Brad Barker's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I had a bus come in today, 2001 AAFE, with leece neville 160 amp that would not charge. It puzzled me at first because our in dash charging system monitor said it was putting out yet the amp gauge showed a discharge. I started checking voltages at the battery and worked forward. Battery voltage was 12.70 yet voltage at the starter was 3.10. As I traced back through the harness I found that Bird places the Negative junction right above the axle using one frame bolt. I thought this might be the problem but after further inspection and performing a voltage drop test on the Positive cable from the battery to the starter I found that is where the problem was. We have battery shut off switches mounted on the rear facing side of the battery box. Cable ends had corroded at that point causing 9.60 volts of resistance. After removing the switch and cables from the switch and replacing one cable end voltage flowed normally and the Alternator charged normally. I am now going to run a special service program on all like buses to check these corrosion points to prevent like occurrances.
Corroded, dirty or broken wires and cables are often the source of alternator problems. If you are experiencing a high amount of charging and starting system problems clean all battery cables and their junctions. Always make sure the battery is up to snuff too before condemning an alternator. A broken ground wire from the alternator to the engine can make the alternator overcharge an blow diodes.
Brad

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wrenchmen
Senior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2003 :  08:12:16 AM  Show Profile  Send wrenchmen an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
jose jiminez,

what alternator came standard on the bus you are trying to convert. if it was a delco 109 amp I can give you the part numbers for the brackets to fit a 130 amp leece neville on that cummins.
or, look in your blue bird parts book and see if they show an option for a larger alternator, and it will show the neccesary brackets needed.
We have converted all our originaly equipped delco 109 amp alternators to 130 amp leece neville. and yes the oil filter is very close, just shorten the stud so it does not hit the filter.

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wrenchmen
Senior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2003 :  08:34:06 AM  Show Profile  Send wrenchmen an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
Brad,

We have checked all connections, grounds, etc.
it is also a very good practice to charge or replace a battery and not just jump start the bus and let it run. we "swing' battaries if they are dead, meaning remove the dead battery, and put in one that has been charged in our shop, than charge the battery and test and its ready for the next time.
also always check the wire at the back of the alternator that "excites" or tells the alternator to charge. this is a small wire that comes from the vehicles ignition and if there is no voltage there the alternator will not charge. the wire make look fine but we have found alot that were broken under the insulation...open circuit.
Not all alternators are excited this way but if it is, check it.
Brad i know you are aware of the above...just passing on some info that has helped us with our problems.

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wrenchmen
Senior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2003 :  08:59:54 AM  Show Profile  Send wrenchmen an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
BirdGoinSouth,

That is exactly what they are doing when I return these alternators for warranty, replacing with a 175amp model.
our buses are not equipped with a/c. we are possibly getting some next year with a/c and I have spec'd the 270amp model on those.
I have worked with Mike,Kevin and Tim Lacey and they have been very helpfull in solving many of our problems, but thank you for the info.

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partsman_ba
Administrator

United States
359 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2011 :  12:20:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, what a resurrection - over 8 years later!

We have switched over to Bosch alternators for all but the highest amp applications -

AL9960LH - 160A J180 mount
AL9961LH - 160A pad mount
AL9962SB - 200A pad mount (BB# 0108218, that's where I get the best price)
AL9963SB - 200A J180 mount (BB# 0120819, see above)

"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional."
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Brad Barker
Administrator

USA
862 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2011 :  2:03:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Brad Barker's Homepage  Click to see Brad Barker's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Wow! that was an old one. Yes the Bosch 200 amp has been the alternator of choice in our area on all brands of buses. Small in size, long in life.

Brad A. Barker
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IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2011 :  3:33:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Been dealing with Leece-Neville alternators and starters since the late 70s and have little faith in them. Delco isn't much better, but they are a little better, especially starters. We have a couple Electrodynes on our fire apparatus which seem to be bulletproof but expensive.

Neihoff alternators seem to be bulletproof also. We have a 250 amp on our ladder truck that keeps on crankin' since '92.

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.

Edited by - IBTMech on 11/05/2011 3:36:39 PM
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02raptor
Active Member

10 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  05:25:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Delco type 28SI J-180 from SAASE alternators and starters $225.00 replaces leese Neville on my BB and Internationals. great people.

9 school buses.3 service vehicles.4 Tractors and Me.
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