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thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
 Posted - 05/15/2001 : 7:11:19 PM
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I don't know about you, but how do you all feel about a school bus manufacturer merging with a chassis manufacturer (i.e. Thomas/Freight, AmTran/Int). Personally I do not like the idea of a bus mft. becoming monogamous with a certain chassis mft, because the customer gets less engine options and overall, its an unfair practice. The school bus industry seems to becoming a monopoly, which is unfair to the school districts and others who purchase school buses. How do you feel about it? Just let me add this....I bet Perley A. Thomas is rolling in his grave, at the thought that his company sold out to Freightliner.
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2001 : 7:42:04 PM
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I don't like it either!! It's becoming a big Monopoly Game!! I just hope they realize they a building buses for are children and not their pocked books!!
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2001 : 11:09:09 PM
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as I have mentioned in past posts, I am so against whats going on in the bus industry. This idea of corporate power in this country, making the rich richer, is bleeding over into the school bus industry. The two absolute biggest problems with this is
1.) Prices will not be competitive
2.) Advancements in the industry will be slow as all hell; why ? because since the competition is less, their is less companies to keep up with, thus less advancements.
Small Advancements will still be made, yes, like Thomas's Saf-t-liner's convenient ammenities to BlueBirds new safety-view window in the cowl that originated in the 50's Waynes. ( some of you are probably saying, hey- the Thomas Saf-t-liner is a far leap in the advancement of the industry ) but guess what? The school bus could be so much more advanced with safety features like in the BlueBird Envirobus, ( LED's and STRobes for gods sake, I mean why is technology like this just finally hitting the industry??? ) Thomas is getting their, but slowly, BlueBird is even slower, and Amtran, well they may just be moving backwards ( but hey they may just have somethign in store for us soon ).
The other technology besides safety that needs to be marketed and soon is fuel efficency. This is all over the transportation industry, so I am not blaming International and Freightliner and Ford and GM and whomever else directly.
sorry guys, I got carried away, but please, use you voice, forums like this, whatever to reach the industry, let them know that this monopolizing is crap. Gone are the choices of body/chassis manufacturers.
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 07:28:04 AM
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I disagree with the "marraige" of chassis/body manufacturers. I am totally against it. I think each chassis and body manufacturer should be their OWN company. If they were, there would be more choices for the consumer and more competition. This would lead to a better school bus market that offered more than it does now.
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 08:43:03 AM
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Hi Folks,
Competition is alive and well in the school bus industry. There may come a time when Thomas will only build on Freightliner chassis, and AmTran will only use International, and Bluebird will only use Ford or GM, but it ain't here yet. If it does we'll still have to spec the units the way we want them, and the bus builders will comply or they won't be selected. They WILL provide equipment and options that you need. At times like these it is most advantageous to buy buses as a state, so they pay closer attention because of the quantities involved. They pay much closer attention when your order includes 1,000 buses instead of 30 or 40!!
With only three(3) major builders the competition is more intense than ever for the remaining three to stay afloat! There won't be a monopoly, or anything approaching that as long as they all keep the quality up and the prices reasonable. All will be doing more innovative things in the future to try to stake a claim on "their" customer base. Stay tuned!
Joe
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MrBusDriver
Senior Member
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 08:48:08 AM
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quote:
I disagree with the "marraige" of chassis/body manufacturers. I am totally against it. I think each chassis and body manufacturer should be their OWN company. If they were, there would be more choices for the consumer and more competition. This would lead to a better school bus market that offered more than it does now.
Bob
"B. Busguy33"
I would not have a problem with the marriage of a body/chassis mfg if there was an overabundance of mfg in the USA. However there is not and this creates some of the largest monopolies in the country. We as bus operaters are forced into our decisions due to lack of options and innovative features in bus design. I don't like what I see happening presently... however I believe that if safety design and quality control increased in ALL mfg's then this monopoly is not such a bad thing.
-- Mr Bus Driver
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 10:08:57 AM
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The one thing that I hate about the marriages thing is the one chassis and body.
Thomas/Freightliner
International/International
BlueBird/Ford
I think the schools district should have the right to chooes any chassis they want on their body and not maunfacturer chooes the chassis for the schools district.It is all ready a monopoly game and Thomas Built Buses are just like Bill Gate because they are getting all the bids,and get this they only want you to get Thomas body on a freightliner chassis.Soon it will cost you more to get International chassis on Thomas body.Just like BlueBird it cost 500 dollar more to get a freightliner chassis on their body.Soon BlueBird will only offer Ford chassis on their buses.All the buses manufacturer and chassis manufacturer are just hurting thier business not us.
Thomas265 |
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 10:29:24 AM
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Current large bus options from the Big Three..
Thomas, owned by Freightliner
Sat-T-Liner Series, integrated Thomas Built Chassis
Conventional, Freightliner or International chassis
(they tried to stop selling Internationals, but it didn't work lol)
Blue Bird
All American or TC/2000, integrated Blue Bird chassis
Conventional, International, Freightliner, Exclusive GM chassis
Advanced Conventional, "integrated" Ford chassis
International
FE/RE integrated body/chassis
IC integrated conventional
CS they build a separate body for the chassis they sell to other manufacturers
The name and concept of AmTran is gone. International now builds both body and chassis, and will not buy another chassis.
There's also Corbeil, who I really hope enters the US market soon. But in order to do that, they have to start building their own transit-style chassis. (Currently, they buy the same chassis International builds for their FE/RE). They offer conventionals on Intl or Freight.
---
Now, one thing I've wondered about, buses are the only vehicle I've seen that has a separate manufacturer for body/chassis. Why is this? I mean, trucks, cars, even most coach buses are all built by one company. Is it really that important to be able to decide on both parts of the bus?
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 10:36:15 AM
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Thomas00 - your Thomas / Bill Gates comment was phenomenal,,,,awesome!,,,,
ok, but seriously, when choices are limited to people, the outcome is never good. Do you seriously think that this is healthy? Less competition is crap. I understand that because we have the big three, that you think it will be fierce for them to compete with each other, but it probably wont. The reason is because All three companies are limiting your choices. They are persuading you into buying what they want you to buy,,,I.E. The 500 dollar extra charge to get a freightliner chassis on a BlueBird body. ( actually now that I thought of that, I would like to make sure that that 500 dollar charge is because you have to get a raised roof if you want a BB/Freightliner, than it would make sense ). Doesnt it scare you that your Freightliner buses are really, actually Chrysler products now. ITs bullcrap. I gaurantee you that prices will not be competitive because once again, your choices are more limited now than ever. So what, Ford entered the market, great,,,guess what ,,,,their is a really good chance that GM is gone after 2003 ( after talking to a few GM medium duty reps at the NAPT).
Thomas86 - all he wants is a GM Thomas with a gas engine,,,that is something that should be offered.
REgardless,,,,,people deserve choices,,,,,this is almost as bad as choosing Bush or Gore,,,,,,,,
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 9:00:48 PM
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No more GM after '03???? Heh...less choices and NO MORE GASOLINE ENGINES!!!!
When GM is gone, say goodbye to GMC and Chevy. Also, say goodbye to the gasoline engines and the exclusive agreement they had with Blue Bird.
Ford's gain is GM's loss it looks like. That in itself is unfortunate. Just remember back way back when when Ford, GMC, and Chevy were all big...at the same time.
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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svhockeyjock
Senior Member
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 9:27:06 PM
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I dont like the idea of there being marrages. AS for the comment on Freightliner actually being DaimlerChrysler...There is a car dealership in Atlanta which is a full service DiamlerChrysler dealership one of only a few in the nation, you can buy everything from a Ram 3500 Diesel Dually to a Mercedies S-600, next thing you know they will be adding on to the dealership and sell Freightliner Rigs and Thomas busses.. skeery idnt it?
John Scott Boreland |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2001 : 10:03:09 PM
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svhockeyjock - scary it is!
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2001 : 1:09:48 PM
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Jared
You are right I would love a Thomas/GMC because I want a gasoline engine with a manual transmission. Oh well I will survive with my International/Thomas Diesel.
I remember when International used to make a gas engine I wish they still did.
As for these body/chassis combinations its horrible.
Thomas/Freightliner
BlueBird/GMC
AmTran/International
Thomas and Blue Bird are available on International, but for how long??
Thomas/AmTrash/Blue Bird should all be available on: Freightliner/International/GMC/and Ford.
We also need about two more body manufacturers in this country. Maybe Wayne and Superior could come back. The hell with Carpenter they went down for a reason and that reason was good I am surprised they made it as long as they did.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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MrBusDriver
Senior Member
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2001 : 1:25:47 PM
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quote:
I dont like the idea of there being marrages. AS for the comment on Freightliner actually being DaimlerChrysler...There is a car dealership in Atlanta which is a full service DiamlerChrysler dealership one of only a few in the nation, you can buy everything from a Ram 3500 Diesel Dually to a Mercedies S-600, next thing you know they will be adding on to the dealership and sell Freightliner Rigs and Thomas busses.. skeery idnt it?
John Scott Boreland
Now all they need is a drive thru window... "I'll take one MB S600 and one Thomas Saf-T-Liner ER, Supersized..."
That'll be the day... HA! 
-- Mr Bus Driver
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2001 : 1:52:16 PM
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International's predicament is very interesting. The story goes like this,,,International owns all of amtran, and like many people know, they are one company now. So it shouldnt surprise any of you if international doesnt supply the 3800 chassis to other manufacturers in the near future. However, Ford and International just joined forces in producing medium duty trucks and engines. Ford only sells bus chassis to BlueBird, so I dont really know where I am going with this, but you can use your imagination to plan out the future of Blue Bird and International.
Ideas.....maybe Ford will buy Blue Bird from Henly's? although I doupt they will, but it would create direct competition between Chrysler ( Freightliner-Thomas ) and Ford ( Ford Truck - Blue Bird ). Where does that leave International? hmmm.
All we can hope for is who ever has the rights to Wayne's designs, and Superiors ( mid bus I am guessing , or maybe Superior Coach hearst company ),,,that they step forward and start building these bodies again. Unfortunatly, being a realist, the economy isnt set up right now for a business like a new bus body company to start from scratch and actually survive in this country.
any other ideas?
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Chassis/Body Mft. Marriages
