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oliver88
Active Member

14 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2018 :  05:17:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit oliver88's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We are a public school district and we have found out recently that the District is looking at contracting out Bus service for next year. We have been very good budget wise over the years so it was kind of a surprise to us. We keep a decent fleet and replace on a schedule. We do keep our buses maybe up to 18 years old but replace some every year also.
Does anyone else been through this recently? I know there is tons of pros and cons both ways. Just looking for a little input is all. Thanks

kummins
Active Member

41 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2018 :  06:57:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit kummins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
https://www.nsba.org/newsroom/american-school-board-journal/online-only-archive/school-transportation-outsourcing-tips

i can tell you that it leads to corruption. in my area the school budget always includes several million dollars for new buses, which means taxpayers pay for them, yet they contract out busing to private companies whose contracted costs include the price of the buses. taxpayers end up paying twice.

heck, last years school budget showed 16 million dollars for computers under the heading transportation.

in my world, if you start a business and bid on work, then you should supply all the needed equipment/supplies/vehicles to do the job, you only get to charge monies for the service, not the "tools" needed to perform the service, that'd be your cost of doing business which is deductible anyways. example: can't bid to provide transportation if you don't have any vehicles!

the busing companies here seem to have no cost to themselves, the district pays for everything including the buses, the salaries, the insurances, & the privateers make money (that'd be a profit, wouldn't it?) so how can it save the district & taxpayers any money if profit is in there???
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scot1337
Senior Member

119 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2018 :  10:53:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just for verification, are you saying that the district is looking to have an outside company take care of the service for the buses? Or are they looking to rent or charter out for non school related events?
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oliver88
Active Member

14 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2018 :  11:19:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit oliver88's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The District is looking at an outside company to handle all busing. For school and all extra trips
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kentuckynascar1
Advanced Member

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2018 :  6:16:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kentucky is proposing to take money away from transportation, and many districts are on shoestring budgets. This will put a lot of districts in bankrupcy.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  06:59:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kentuckynascar1

Kentucky is proposing to take money away from transportation, and many districts are on shoestring budgets. This will put a lot of districts in bankrupcy.



I'm not well versed in KY politics but many states got into trouble when politicians promised and then delivered things that the state couldn't afford. Those people are now out of office and living in a warm climate, sitting on their behind, and the rest of us are left to clean up the mess. Some states will tighten the belt and fix the problem and others won't. In those states that won't tighten the belt, eventually many will get hurt financially and end up without retirement and no money to support them when they are old and frail. Many public bodies will fail and roads will become like the third world. I believe it can be different though. This is the United States of America you know! The key will be to "wake that sleeping giant" then make sure he is educated in the facts and not just political double talk. I'm a free market guy all around but I still can't see how a private company can deliver the service I'm delivering in my operation, cheaper than I can. I just can't see it. That's not to mention the control that the school district loses in the mean time. OK, stepping down from my soapbox.

Bryan
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  07:06:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oliver88

We are a public school district




By the way, what year is your 88?

Bryan
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valleybusman
Top Member

USA
799 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  08:09:40 AM  Show Profile  Send valleybusman an AOL message  Reply with Quote
One issue I have seen is when a contractor comes the first thing they do is get rid of anything that is 8 years or older . So the district loses most of the fleet to surplus . Then if the district wants to go back to handling transportation . They either have to replace all those buses and so the district would need to come up with a large lump sum of money which they won't have . Also a contractor is there to make money . So they sure won't be any cheaper than what you are all ready doing . All contracting does is take the monkey off the districts back and puts it on the contractor . We have district run with a contractor and 15 plus years have tried to get back into transportation with no success .
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  08:42:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also what I saw happen in a neighboring county is when the contracted company took over, the next thing they did was tell all the drivers, mechanics and staff is, " You have to apply for your job and here is your starting pay, take it or leave it"

US Army retired CMBT
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  08:59:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RonF

Also what I saw happen in a neighboring county is when the contracted company took over, the next thing they did was tell all the drivers, mechanics and staff is, " You have to apply for your job and here is your starting pay, take it or leave it"



And that's where they make money. Take it from the lowest paid people in the district. Maybe they need to contract administration. lol

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2018 :  10:14:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RonF

Also what I saw happen in a neighboring county is when the contracted company took over, the next thing they did was tell all the drivers, mechanics and staff is, " You have to apply for your job and here is your starting pay, take it or leave it"



It amazes me that that approach works (with drivers) given that you could go anywhere and drive a bus nowadays. You'd expect more people to leave it and go elsewhere, thus causing the contractor a headache.
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  03:30:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

quote:
Originally posted by RonF

Also what I saw happen in a neighboring county is when the contracted company took over, the next thing they did was tell all the drivers, mechanics and staff is, " You have to apply for your job and here is your starting pay, take it or leave it"



It amazes me that that approach works (with drivers) given that you could go anywhere and drive a bus nowadays. You'd expect more people to leave it and go elsewhere, thus causing the contractor a headache.



Some drivers who are living off of the bare minimum cannot just move to another county nor drive to another one. So they have to take the lower pay and deal with it.

US Army retired CMBT
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  04:18:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, sometimes I forget that employers may not be as geographically close as they are in my area.
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bestguessrepairs
Active Member

24 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  04:53:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit bestguessrepairs's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can see it growing in popularity as the costs of buying and maintaining a fleet of buses increase. You then add in insurances and all the other expenses relative to having drivers on your payroll increases. Then you throw in the budget cuts the government throws in I can see why schools would at least look at options available to them.

Contractors make it work because they buy buses and parts in bulk for a lot less money. They pay less money and they usually offer no benefits or next to no benefits to the drivers.

Contractors are nothing new to the bus world. The big thing I also see coming is having temp drivers from a driving temp service. That is becoming a big thing in trucking industry. You call them up set up a an account and you need a driver you call them and bam a driver shows up to drive your bus. Yea it wouldn't make sense for a 1 or 2 day absence to need a driver. But if your school has multiple drivers off or has a driver shortage for an extended period of time it makes sense.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  04:59:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bestguessrepairs

They pay less money and they usually offer no benefits or next to no benefits to the drivers.

Contractors are nothing new to the bus world. The big thing I also see coming is having temp drivers from a driving temp service. That is becoming a big thing in trucking industry. You call them up set up a an account and you need a driver you call them and bam a driver shows up to drive your bus. Yea it wouldn't make sense for a 1 or 2 day absence to need a driver. But if your school has multiple drivers off or has a driver shortage for an extended period of time it makes sense.



And this is why they have a black eye in the forum of public opinion. You get what you pay for. If you pay minimum wage, you get a minimum wage driver.

Contractors are being utilized in Ohio for temp drivers by several schools. Lots of horror stories, see above.

**Full disclosure: I used a temp driver a few years ago for all of my track trips. She came and drove my bus and I paid dearly for it, but I had little choice. I happened to have previously known the owner of the company, so he sent me "one of the good ones". Others' results may vary.**

***If you work for a contractor, PLEASE do not take offence to my above statements! I do realize that there are a lot of good people working for contractors, but at least around here they are few and far.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  05:18:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bestguessrepairs

The big thing I also see coming is having temp drivers from a driving temp service. That is becoming a big thing in trucking industry. You call them up set up a an account and you need a driver you call them and bam a driver shows up to drive your bus. Yea it wouldn't make sense for a 1 or 2 day absence to need a driver. But if your school has multiple drivers off or has a driver shortage for an extended period of time it makes sense.



Wonder how that would work in a state that says a driver has to be employed by the district that they drive for?

Bryan
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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member

46 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  05:32:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jon the Mekanik's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well you have to under stand one thing about a contractor. It is for profit in a not for profit business. There are some contractors that do it right.
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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member

46 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  05:41:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jon the Mekanik's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you don't like something in your area get on a board or town halls and call your senator. No one is on the inside speck out I think most of us don't want to get you head cut off by poking it up and saying something. knowledge is power but the pay check is more important. Most of us can get a job any where so don't be afraid to use your skills somewhere else. Don't get to comfortable any where they are not loyal to you so why are we putting all our egg in that basket.
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bestguessrepairs
Active Member

24 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  07:16:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit bestguessrepairs's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What is sad about the entire industry is that most people in the decision making positions really don't have a clue. Its only going to get worse all the way around in the industry.
It all getting ready to come to a head here before to long.



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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member

46 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  09:41:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jon the Mekanik's Homepage  Reply with Quote
its a race to the bottom who can pay people the lowest. And make the most profit. Gov jobs used to be safe not any more. People work at cat start at 23 but its not fleet and we all love to work on fleets. I know I do.
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Sherm
Top Member

USA
621 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2018 :  1:24:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've managed both kinds of operations. In some parts of the world, it's the contracted operations that are safe and efficient and the district-run operations that are scary dangerous. I prefer a district operation personally.

I was expected to make a profit, but not off the district. We ran charters and extra trips with buses equipped to do so safely. This kept expenses down for the district, kept the drivers busy, and also provided a much-needed service to others in the community.

In some places, the district buys the fuel or owns the buses. Sometimes the contractor contributes to driver retirement on behalf of the district. It depends on how the contract is set up, which is usually led by the district. If a district cares about their drivers and kids, they can insist on contractual obligations to help make that happen. If the price is right and the contractor is reputable, it can work.

However, no one anywhere can promise a full staff of well-trained professional drivers every single day. We all struggle with the issues of driver pay, training, student behavior, etc. Contracting won't help solve these issues. The news is full of companies that make these promises that simply cannot be kept without serious fundamental change to our attitudes towards transporting children.
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