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crmech7
Senior Member
51 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2018 : 05:15:09 AM
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| Hey guys, our school is looking at some new buses and Blue Bird let us borrow a gas bus for a couple days to try it out. Can anyone help me out with some pros and cons? So far I just really like the idea of not having to deal with the DPF. Any insight is appreciated! |
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crmech7
Senior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 05:22:01 AM
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| This one has a Ford 6.8L V10 engine, by the way. |
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jeeptjken
Senior Member
147 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 05:32:51 AM
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| Love our gas units no plugging them in when its cold always start no def fuel is cheaper make great heat when its cold no dpf to have cleaned just my 2 cents |
How did you get the gosinta in the whatchamacallit |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 05:38:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by crmech7
Hey guys, our school is looking at some new buses and Blue Bird let us borrow a gas bus for a couple days to try it out. Can anyone help me out with some pros and cons? So far I just really like the idea of not having to deal with the DPF. Any insight is appreciated!
I'm not familiar with the BB V10, I've read about problems with them having valve issues and transmission problems. I believe the transmission is a Ford transmission, I could be wrong though. I'm interested in converting our fleet to gas engines myself and my choice of engines would be the 8.8L made by PSI. IC currently offers this engine. IMHO IC is far better in quality and in our area is far better with customer service. I've spoken to El Paso ISD and they own over 40 of the IC with the PSI engine, the drivers love them and so do the mechanics. The supervisor there told me they have had almost zero issues with them so far and ordered 40 more for next school year. I've got 4 on order now!
Pros: don't have to mess with DEF DPF DOC crap and hardly any down time.
Cons: we'll have to order more gasoline on our future fuel orders and get a bigger in ground tank for the gas. LOL |
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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 06:01:18 AM
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| God sent me the 77 pass gas bus.I have 2017 Cummins breaking down all the time. But not my gas buses.unless you drive them up steep grades fully loaded there great. We may try to switch to the gas buses. The only thing stopping us is passenger count. I have tried the gas 81 passenger and it has no leg room for high school boys and girls. |
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muddywater
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 10:57:39 AM
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We took delivery of a BB gasser last summer. We are satisfied with the small decrease in power, it seem like a small sacrifice compared to the nightmare that is DPF. The only complaint I can see from here is the fan belt system on the A/C models is poorly engineered. You have the water pump belt installed behind the bracket that is mounting the air compressor pump, alternator, and one of the A/C compressors. You have to removed that accessory drive mounting bracket to access the water pump belt. And ours only has driver's A/C, but the bus has 2 A/C compressors mounted on the engine, the 2nd A/C compressor is being used as an idler pulley on the water pump belt. It has no A/C lines hooked to it at all. I believe it will take about 4-6 hours to change that water pump belt.
We have on order one of the new IC 8.8 bus's that is coming this spring, with it's increase in power verses the BB bus I think if they hold up, they will be the go bus coming up. |
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Ryan5r
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 11:07:16 AM
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| Ford transmissions have always been weak. I like the idea of IC having a cChevy motor with the Allison behind it. I've driven them both and they both act the same. |
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black
Active Member
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 3:00:43 PM
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| The district here bought 10 of the very first Blue Bird propane buses (2013) with the Ford propane engine an Ford transmission. The transmissions have been 100% trouble free. |
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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2018 : 06:31:14 AM
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| propane and cold weather ha good luck |
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bedfordone
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2018 : 08:01:01 AM
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We brought in a bluebird gas bus for a trial run. All of the mechanics were satisfied with how it drives and the power that it has! So we bought one from Cardinal bus and the driver and the mechanics are extremely satisfied with the bus this far. We have several more on order.
The DPF has become a nightmare on any and all diesel manufactures. I will be happy when they are all gone. If it is an over the road semi they work fine but not for school busses in the city with the constant stop and go, and not getting up to a fast enough speed to give them a passive regeneration while driving. I have considered making it a mid-day route to save money on maintenance, but then you have to consider the added fuel consumption, driver's time, and extra mileage that puts your warranty in jeopardy whether it is mileage or by hours.
I am sticking with the gas busses until the EPA get's out of the way on mandating DPF technology on school busses. |
Brian Prochazka
Bedford City Schools
Transportation Specialist |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2018 : 08:53:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon the Mekanik
propane and cold weather ha good luck
Today's propane buses are liquid fuel injection like gasoline, no cold weather issues so far with the 2 Thomas and 2 Bluebirds we have here in northwest Iowa. 2 IC propanes and another Bluebird on order.
I can see some gas buses in our future for the longer trips and the routes that don't get the buses to our propane fueling station regularly. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 02/09/2018 09:00:00 AM |
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member
303 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2018 : 7:40:36 PM
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We purchased 2 2014 BB propane with the Ford V10 for a trial. aside from being hard on fuel and the exhaust manifolds having to come off both buses twice, the buses have been flawless. Great heat, no DPF, no DEF, no Webasto. Oil changes twice as often, but only 7 litres of oil and a $8 compared to a Maxxforce DT with 30 litres of oil and a $40 filter. If the gas engine would give better fuel economy than propane I would definitely consider that option.
Our last bus purchase was 5 2017 BB buses with the propane V10 72 Pass.. Run great ,just having lots of electrical glitches with the body/chassis. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 06:33:31 AM
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I'm still scared of gasoline because of the crash in KY in the late 80s. I know there were other issues in play but in short the gasoline tank was crushed and spewed a mist of gas out and it caught fire. I can still see that happening because the tanks are so thin as compared with propane. As for the fuel mileage, I'm not sure gasoline is much better than propane. We pay in the 1.20 per gallon range for propane and gasoline is above 2 bucks. My money is on propane for the long haul. Diesel is out in my book, no future there for our market and other short stop and go vocations.
Oh, one other issue I'm having on my V10s. It's an issue that we are working out but I have been having some cold weather start issues (below 20F). I'm fixing them one at a time so they are slowing coming around, lol. Another downfall of propane is changing the fuel pump inside the tank. I don't have the equipment to do it yet. So, I have to send them out. |
Bryan |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 07:28:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
I'm still scared of gasoline because of the crash in KY in the late 80s. I know there were other issues in play but in short the gasoline tank was crushed and spewed a mist of gas out and it caught fire. I can still see that happening because the tanks are so thin as compared with propane. As for the fuel mileage, I'm not sure gasoline is much better than propane. We pay in the 1.20 per gallon range for propane and gasoline is above 2 bucks. My money is on propane for the long haul. Diesel is out in my book, no future there for our market and other short stop and go vocations.
As I recall in the KY crash the front leaf spring of the bus punctured the fuel tank. It was an overloaded, coolers blocking the aisle "ex" school bus built prior to fuel tank cages and numerous additional emergency exit standards.
We usually saw about a 10% reduction in fuel economy when we switched to propane from gasoline back in the day. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 09:05:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
[i]
As I recall in the KY crash the front leaf spring of the bus punctured the fuel tank. It was an overloaded, coolers blocking the aisle "ex" school bus built prior to fuel tank cages and numerous additional emergency exit standards.
We usually saw about a 10% reduction in fuel economy when we switched to propane from gasoline back in the day.
[/quote]
I know there were changes to construction but I still think the tank thickness is less than it should be. |
Bryan |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 09:42:15 AM
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bwest,
Another difference in the construction (on an IC anyway) is that the gas tank is located between the rear frame rails, inside the same steel cage as a diesel. The Carrollton bus I believe had a tank that was located starboard side by the door with no protective cage and was constructed with plastic. I think it would take a great deal of skill to rupture a center mounted, cage protected tank. Not to say it can't happen, but highly unlikely. Many seem to forget also that many type A buses are already gas powered, as are most regular motor vehicles.
It's a tough debate and I see your side for sure. I don't know that any one of us could argue the safety of each type to each others satisfaction... that's the beauty of options! |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 12:21:33 PM
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| The Carrollton bus had a steel tank, but other than that, you are correct about it's placement. |
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Jon the Mekanik
Active Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 1:19:26 PM
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| what happens when the driver of the year runs the propane dry. And what driver is going to go get the one guy at the truck stop and wait 10 min for him to come to the fuel point to fill your bus and its -20 and windy Now you have drivers not fueling the bus and you cant fire them because there are no prospect driver in line. |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2018 : 1:30:30 PM
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| I have 5 Blue Bird gas buses on the way. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2018 : 05:02:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon the Mekanik
what happens when the driver of the year runs the propane dry. And what driver is going to go get the one guy at the truck stop and wait 10 min for him to come to the fuel point to fill your bus and its -20 and windy Now you have drivers not fueling the bus and you cant fire them because there are no prospect driver in line.
Well I know how it is when a diesel SCR/DEF system malfunctions and the bus goes into 5 mph derate mode miles from the shop.
As far as propane buses go, if you don't have onsite fueling or at least a nearby dependable, convenient place to get fuel you probably should stick with diesel or gas. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2018 : 1:47:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
quote:
Originally posted by Jon the Mekanik
what happens when the driver of the year runs the propane dry. And what driver is going to go get the one guy at the truck stop and wait 10 min for him to come to the fuel point to fill your bus and its -20 and windy Now you have drivers not fueling the bus and you cant fire them because there are no prospect driver in line.
Well I know how it is when a diesel SCR/DEF system malfunctions and the bus goes into 5 mph derate mode miles from the shop.
As far as propane buses go, if you don't have onsite fueling or at least a nearby dependable, convenient place to get fuel you probably should stick with diesel or gas.
Yes, on site fueling is a must. If you are in an area with dependable propane suppliers, you will have no problem getting an onsite set up. Further, you will not have trouble getting the bulk truck to come out and fuel the bus where it runs out. No priming, no carrying juggs. Just fuel it up and start as normal. |
Bryan |
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Gas Bus pros and cons?
