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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
 Posted - 06/07/2016 : 06:40:02 AM
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i run older buses in our fleet and i don't have problems with them we got these 2 new blue birds and i can't wash them both buses freak out when they get washed they can be rained on for weeks and nothing happens BUT when they are washed they are almost undrivable for several days i have been talking to rush bus center and they are stumped too i have had them towed once due to the issue (the cummins engine derates,the trans won't go into drive or reverse the dash lights up like a xmas tree all the bells and whistles start sounding nothing works in the bus the speedo and tac go crazy the engine speeds up to 2500 rpm every 15 or 20 seconds and this will last for days) i have taken every connector,plug apart i have inspected all the controllers i am to to point we just don't wash the outside of the bus any more until this week when 2 drivers took them without telling me and now these 2 are down again has anyone had this problem this is crazy i like the old buses no electronics so simple to deal with |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 06:43:51 AM
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| Are they opening hoods and washing engines? What about battery boxes? I've never heard or seen this issue and we have several Blue Birds that are 2011-2013. |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 06:55:26 AM
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| both drivers said they did not open the hood and no water was sprayed up from the bottom the battery box was dry and the batteries are new (1 year old) and clean when i inspected the engine bay it was dry i cant find any signs of water in any thing i know i am missing something i just dont know what and i am sure the once it is figured out i will feel pretty stupid it has to be a simple problem but with modern tecnoligy even the tinyest problem is sometimes a major problem however except for this one problem with both buses i love these units |
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torque
Advanced Member
Canada
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 07:15:35 AM
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I guess watch them wash the bus and see what they are doing? We have had a few problems with water/moisture getting on the module in the exterior electrical panel, but that would not affect the engine. We have 2011 to 2016 never had such a problem.
Check the interior electrical panel (under dog house cover)for water leaks from the windshield, and the connectors and bulk head connectors under the hood in the center behind the coolant tank ??? It's a start. |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 07:36:32 AM
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| yes i have check the bulkhead connectors and i have looked at the electrical eq. on the dog house interior there are no signs of water anywhere i'm thinking the CAN circuit due to the large number of faults the system is showing i have followed that circuit all over the bus and i just don't see anything that would cause the issue and it is the fact both buses came from the same school i have contacted the school that used to own the unit's and they never had an issue like this |
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black
Active Member
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 07:47:46 AM
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| We had some 2012 model Visions that we had to turn the (TCM)Transmission Control Modules side ways to prevent water from getting in them. |
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torque
Advanced Member
Canada
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 08:28:32 AM
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| That would make sense, CAN does go to TCM and it would not be hard to get water in there if they spray right along the hood fender gap. |
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eddo
Advanced Member
USA
311 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 08:42:47 AM
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This may or may not be relevant, and it is gonna sound real stupid, but I faced this when we got some 2016 IH's.
On my old trucks, the transmission didn't care if you had your foot on the brake when you put the truck in gear. On the new trucks, you HAVE to have your foot on the brake BEFORE you shift out of neutral for the transmission to engage. Otherwise the dash lights up.
I have one driver that could NEVER make the truck move. He'd get in the truck in the morning, it wouldn't move, so he'd get a spare truck (an older one.) I'd go check it out, and all was fine. Repeat several times.
It took me a long time to figure out what he was doing (or not doing, I should say.) I laughed for days when we finally figured it out.
(Edit to add that this was a part time driver- so it only happened once or twice a week. Everyone else had no issues with this truck.)
Sometimes random, frustrating issues could be just the difference in a new vehicle versus the old everyone is used to.
Good luck :) |
Edited by - eddo on 06/07/2016 08:44:49 AM |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 08:51:19 AM
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yes I did have an issue with the tcm when we first got the units I filled the plug with electronics grease and the problem with water in the plug did not reappear and also I installed a water defection dam above the tcm to defect any water coming down from the hood and windshield area I did re-inspect the tcm in this instance and no water was found I got a used known good ecm from a friend at north side isd and no luck if the CAN is not causing this I am looking into a possible breach in the wiring insulation in the engine compartment once I get the units running again I am going to wet small areas 1 at a time and give it soak time to see if I can find this gremlin and then the gremlin will be |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 09:04:08 AM
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| yes I know what you mean we have some rocket scientist here and when the problem showed itself right after we got the unit the first thing I did was rule out the loose nut behind the wheel possibility (driver induced failure)we also have another driver I don't like his name is "NOT ME" I do not like this driver at all he messes up more equipment sometimes I have trouble keeping up and then the driver of a white ford mustang that drove her car under the side of my bluebird bus full of students at hwy speeds took out the rear a/c condenser what a mess |
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black
Active Member
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2016 : 12:20:34 PM
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| My service tech said to check the low coolant sensor. If it gets wet it can cause some of these problems. |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 09:41:45 AM
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| i have not looked at that yet i will though the unit has calmed down some, now what it is doing is"the parking brake light is blinking and there is a beeping sound the speedo is at 30 mph and the odometer is racking up mileage nothing still works inside the bus and if you touch the gas pedal the engine speeds up to 2500 rpm and the speedo goes to 100 mph for 5 sec then everything comes back to idle the bus will now go into reverse but when you go to drive and alarm comes on and the message center shows drive inhibited the other bus is operational now it started working after i took all the controller plugs off and reconnected them this has been crazy week |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 10:00:14 AM
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| Are they still under warranty?? If so, I'd let it be someone elses problem, assuming that's an option for where you're at. Sounds like a real headache |
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krmvcs
Advanced Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 10:08:58 AM
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| packing those connectors with dielectric grease should help too. |
-Ken- |
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 10:32:47 AM
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| i looked at the plug for the coolant reservoir and yes there was water in the plug i cleaned it and retested no change i looked at all the plugs on the engine again and those do not have signs of water so i am continuing my search and no the unit's are not under warranty any more i wish i would have sent both of them to rush and let it be their problem |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 12:28:08 PM
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| Be sure to follow the coolant reservoir wires back under the tank support and check for chaffing. I'll bet that will be your problem. I had one do all kinds of stupid things when those were touching ground there at the support. |
Bryan |
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n2682
Active Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2016 : 05:28:46 AM
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| eddo i had a drive have the same issue with a new 2016 ih bus it ended up rolling backwards and hitting another unit. so much for being safe when it rolls away instead of going in gear because the brake was not pressed hard enough before the shift |
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eddo
Advanced Member
USA
311 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2016 : 09:24:06 AM
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@n2682- yikes!!
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genescammell
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2016 : 05:22:06 AM
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| yes i have 2 2005 ih 200 series buses when the abs ecu fails the unit's parking brake will not set so my drivers are trained to set the brake and test it before shutting down the engine i had one unit in the middle of the night roll across the parking lot and stop against a curb we thought someone was messing with us but i was updating the shop cameras a few days later and i found the video of the bus very slowly rolling away it was around 3 am this is a very scary thing we also chock the wheels now when all the buses are parked.................if you want a great headache work with school buses.................... |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2016 : 06:18:00 AM
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| I'm curious if you have looked at the wires I was talking about. I know when my were rubbed bare they caused all sorts of strange issues. |
Bryan |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 04:15:19 AM
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Also on BlueBird visions, in the electrical panel on under the driver window, look for the zone B body controller located at the bottom left corner, should be silver. They should have a bracket upgrade to tilt the top out further then the bottom. Also disconnect the two connectors and fill them with dielectric grease.
Water runs down from the driver window drain holes and into the controller. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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2013 bluebird vision allergic to water
