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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  06:28:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has anyone had any experience with the new propane engine in the thomas bus? Went to a class on them yesterday and was suppose to return today but the weather got bad. I'm impressed with the set up for the most part. One thing I don't like is that, unlike BB/ Roush, when the fuel door is open you can still start the bus. They also run the fuel pump for a set time, during purge, instead of shutting it off after certain parameters are met. They turn the wait to start light off, however, using similar parameters.

JRob
Advanced Member

207 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  06:45:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Do they have a duel fuel pump or one?
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  08:10:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just one in there. They were kind of making fun of BB for having two. It wasn't malicious or anything, just good fun.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  12:23:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The "old timers" that had propane buses in the 80s might poke fun about even having one fuel pump.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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earl1412
Senior Member

101 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  12:32:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Just one in there. They were kind of making fun of BB for having two. It wasn't malicious or anything, just good fun.


Just returned from Roush in Livonia, and was curious about the fuel tank access port on the system you looked at. I thought there was a pump positioned at the opposite end of the tank to transfer the sloshed fuel to the front mounted delivery pump. Roush uses a siphon system to pull fuel forward for a more balanced delivery. The other thing brought to my attention, does the system you saw, have all cables/fuel lines in one access port cover? I would think if that's the case, it would be hard to service the single pump when it fails. At least with 2 pumps when one goes down the other allows fuel to get vehicle home under its own power.
earl
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2016 :  12:36:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas can say what they want about the Roush system. They have replaced a LOT less fuel pumps on the Roush setup vs the Cleanfuel in the early LP Visions. They start better, they run more consistent

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2016 :  07:13:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by earl1412

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Just one in there. They were kind of making fun of BB for having two. It wasn't malicious or anything, just good fun.


Just returned from Roush in Livonia, and was curious about the fuel tank access port on the system you looked at. I thought there was a pump positioned at the opposite end of the tank to transfer the sloshed fuel to the front mounted delivery pump. Roush uses a siphon system to pull fuel forward for a more balanced delivery. The other thing brought to my attention, does the system you saw, have all cables/fuel lines in one access port cover? I would think if that's the case, it would be hard to service the single pump when it fails. At least with 2 pumps when one goes down the other allows fuel to get vehicle home under its own power.
earl



They have a baffle to hold fuel at the pump. There are only two wires going into the tank. The fuel level indicator is the same on the Roush and Clean Fuel system. They both use a mechanical float and magnetic pickup system. The access to the pump, bleeder, drain valve, and such are from underneath. Their system seems a little more user friendly than the Roush. For instance, the fuel level pickup is right on top on the Roush (imagine how that is to get to) where the Clean Fuel is on the bottom where you can get to it. It can probably be changed in 3 minutes or less. Just my observation. One thing I'm sceptical about is the starter interlock with the fuel door, just scares me. Also, Roush has like 9 thousand vehicles out there, I don't Clean Fuel has nearly that many. Just my thoughts.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2017 :  2:43:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dragged my feet long enough I guess, just ordered two 65 passenger Thomas propane C2s.
I had an entire fleet of propane buses from about 1980 till International quit building gas engines in 85, didn't think I would ever be back to it.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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black
Active Member

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2017 :  08:38:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit black's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What capacity fuel tank does the Thomas bus have? I know the original 67 gal Blue Bird tank was too small and not well received. The 97 gal tank made fueling issues much better.
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2017 :  09:45:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AFAIK the Thomas and IC offerings are in the 67-70 gallon range. I believe the optional Bluebird tank is 93.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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black
Active Member

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2017 :  11:45:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit black's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You are correct, Blue Birds tank is 98 gallon total capacity but 93 usable gallons.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2017 :  1:57:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome! In my situation, I cannot purchase a small tank. We would have axed the program before it got off the ground if BB wouldn't have come out with that larger tank. I really wish the other two would do that too. Wonder what the issue is?

Bryan
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  04:36:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

Dragged my feet long enough I guess, just ordered two 65 passenger Thomas propane C2s.
I had an entire fleet of propane buses from about 1980 till International quit building gas engines in 85, didn't think I would ever be back to it.



Why did you decide on propane over gasoline?
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  04:42:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

The "old timers" that had propane buses in the 80s might poke fun about even having one fuel pump.



80's propane, gives me a headache just thinking about it.
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  05:06:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by second.flood

quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

Dragged my feet long enough I guess, just ordered two 65 passenger Thomas propane C2s.
I had an entire fleet of propane buses from about 1980 till International quit building gas engines in 85, didn't think I would ever be back to it.



Why did you decide on propane over gasoline?



In 1980 and today, lower cost per mile.
In 2017, as I understand it, my school bus purchases come out of a separate fund and fuel costs come out of another fund that wages/utlilites come from. So administration tends to be willing to spend more up front for a bus if it means less drain on the general fund.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 01/23/2017 05:18:16 AM
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  05:16:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Awesome! In my situation, I cannot purchase a small tank. We would have axed the program before it got off the ground if BB wouldn't have come out with that larger tank. I really wish the other two would do that too. Wonder what the issue is?



A few years ago I would have said the same but some attendance center shifts have occurred and I now have more buses sitting at my location during the day than I do at night. The ones that are gone during the day are here at night and I also don't have high school extracurricular trips to cover anymore.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  06:21:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by second.flood

quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

The "old timers" that had propane buses in the 80s might poke fun about even having one fuel pump.



80's propane, gives me a headache just thinking about it.



Me too! You cannot compare the 80s propane to today. In fact, my first reaction was just like yours. "I am not doing propane because I know what kind of headache they are and I have enough headaches". However, the salesman said that he understood that but wanted me to look over the information he had on the new technology. So, now I have nearly half my route buses that are propane. I have a small fleet, by the way.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  07:21:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking a factory built propane bus with 1980s technology might be less of a pain in the posterior than a 2010 and newer emission diesel that is out of warranty. Most of the problems with the 80's propane's were that they were almost all aftermarket conversions.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2017 :  1:52:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

I'm thinking a factory built propane bus with 1980s technology might be less of a pain in the posterior than a 2010 and newer emission diesel that is out of warranty. Most of the problems with the 80's propane's were that they were almost all aftermarket conversions.


Humm, interesting thought! Still wouldn't want to go back there. lol

Bryan
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2017 :  06:46:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My boss and I are visiting Roush in early February.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2017 :  07:24:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by second.flood

My boss and I are visiting Roush in early February.



That would be a worthwhile trip!! Please give us a report if you don't mind.

Bryan
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