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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2015 :  12:43:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As soon as I got home today, my boss texted me and said a driver filled her bus up with gasoline and drove it until it stopped.

Anyone have this happen before and what was the bad news?

Thanks guys,
Scott

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2015 :  1:39:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off, what year is the bus? If we're talking an older pump and lines but I'd say you "could" get by pretty cheap. Otherwise, I'm thinking the worst. Sorry.

Bryan
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2015 :  4:33:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
2004 emissions.

I'm already thinking the worst! lol

She drove it until it shut off, so it can't be good. I've never had this happen before.
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slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  04:41:52 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Unfortunatly I have had that happen here 4-5 years ago! Bus ran 2 miles from fuel stop before it died... My bus was a 2003 engine(pre EGR)....still had Electronic injectors and HPOP... I fretted and wondered what kind of mess the driver had caused,, be it right then or later if parts began to fail!?!?

I had bus towed in, drained fuel, blew out all lines and head, the best I could...replaced fuel filter(s).....and filled up tank with fresh diesel.... Started bus up

Never had a problem with it after that, still runs fine today! haven't even had to replace an injector yet... over 225,000 on it..

Hopefully yours works out as good...Good luck to you!

Edited by - slippert on 09/10/2015 04:44:11 AM
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  04:46:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DOH! Good driver and honest mistake? Horrible driver and now job-impaired?

I think my personal favorite is then they fill a DEF tank with diesel. First, you have to ignore the HUGE warning label and the giant blue filler cap. Secondly, you have to ignore the fact that the nozzle doesn't fit into the opening.

**Hasn't happened here (yet)...the neighbor school hasn't been so lucky**
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RonF
Top Member

867 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  04:56:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Over the years we have had a few that has ran gas in the diesel buses and haven't lost an engine yet.

US Army retired CMBT
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willism
Advanced Member

United States
250 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  06:00:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit willism's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We had one the other day get about 30 gals of gas into it but saw him before he got it all filled up and started it. Tell our fuel guy to never let them out of the bus and help well he learned his lesson sweating in 90 degree heat sucking the fuel out.
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  06:34:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update,
I have had several tanks fueled with gas instead of diesel but never driven. Our fuel card always notified at payment if gasoline was pumped.
I emptied the tank and put fresh diesel in, flushed the fuel system and the engine fired right up. I thought at the least I might have an injector tip melted.
Good driver who also drives for a transit company and that vehicle is gas. She is beyond upset and it's hard to be pissed about it, and that's not me anyway.

Also, the station where she fueled had a green cover on the unleaded nozzle and a black cover on the diesel nozzle. Just to add to the confusion.

Edited by - second.flood on 09/10/2015 10:07:14 AM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  09:58:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, I totally get the green cover/ black cover thing. That's what did it! We have to remember that most people don't think like a mechanic. (lol, that might be a good thing) Anyway, we analyze things ahead of time on most things, others don't go that in depth with their thought process & little changes in routine catch them like this. Glad to hear it's running ok. This is exactly the reason I like this group. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes I get to thinking that participating in this group wastes my time and then things like this come up. If this happens to me I'll know there is a good chance that it'll be ok. Thanks for posting!

Bryan
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  10:01:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I wonder what would happen if gasoline was put in the def?

quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

DOH! Good driver and honest mistake? Horrible driver and now job-impaired?

I think my personal favorite is then they fill a DEF tank with diesel. First, you have to ignore the HUGE warning label and the giant blue filler cap. Secondly, you have to ignore the fact that the nozzle doesn't fit into the opening.

**Hasn't happened here (yet)...the neighbor school hasn't been so lucky**

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krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  10:13:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@second flood
maybe it will look like that rocket dragster bus with a 30 foot flame coming out of the pipe?
things i would do if i had huge amounts of money and a you tube channel.

-Ken-
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2015 :  11:49:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cummins CLAIMS that even gas nozzles won't fit in the DEF filler without a lot of force, but I haven't tried it to see.
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2015 :  1:54:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can tell you that putting diesel in the DEF tank did not yield a good result. No I didn't do it, and no i have no idea how the hell they got the nozzle in there.

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
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1983WardFord
Top Member

USA
1395 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2015 :  03:11:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We had a driver or two that somehow managed to put DEF in the diesel. What a mess.

Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2015 :  11:23:28 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yes, seen it many times over the years. Drain fuel and flush filter housings. The reason it won't run is the viscosity of the diesel fuel is higher than gasoline. It usually does not result in damaging injectors. The injectors have the fine tolerance that compresses the diesel but won't do gasoline. Water usually results in more damage.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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second.flood
Top Member

USA
640 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  07:16:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update, this bus is still going strong.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  07:59:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24


I think my personal favorite is then they fill a DEF tank with diesel. First, you have to ignore the HUGE warning label and the giant blue filler cap. Secondly, you have to ignore the fact that the nozzle doesn't fit into the opening.

**Hasn't happened here (yet)...the neighbor school hasn't been so lucky**



Update to mine: It happened last week. She got 1/10 a gallon in before she realized what she was doing and came in all red faced and nearly crying. Hard to get mad when they react that way, at least for me.
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member

538 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  09:40:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit aaronwilmoth80911's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With our first round of DEF buses a few years ago, we had a driver that took one on a trip, even though she was assigned a different bus, and came back and filled "both" fuel tanks. She said that she couldn't get the nozzle in so she had to bottle feed it and it only took a couple gallons. She had no clue. That was a costly repair.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  09:52:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We only had the diesel in DEF once so far. Spare driver, thought something was wrong when she was done, things didn't seem right, locked door, blue cap, hard time getting nozzle in, didn't take much fuel after long run. Vehicle was not driven far afterwards, but thought she should tell someone :) Not her fault, she was never told about DEF.
I had heard horror stories on this, replace this replace that...... All I did was drain DEF tank, refill 3/4 with clean DEF, rock bus a bit, drain and refill tank. No other problems ever occurred with DEF system, no DEF quality problems. I think sometimes manufacturers like to put fear into us so we replace everything :)
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  11:55:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bus wasn't started, it was a nice morning out so we drained and dropped the tank right at the fuel pump. Washed it out real good (it needed it anyways it turns out). Refilled with DEF and no issues.

I joked that I'm going to order big decals that say "NO!" on them to put inside the DEF door since me or the mechanics are the only ones who are supposed to fill them anyways.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2016 :  12:15:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

Bus wasn't started, it was a nice morning out so we drained and dropped the tank right at the fuel pump. Washed it out real good (it needed it anyways it turns out). Refilled with DEF and no issues.

I joked that I'm going to order big decals that say "NO!" on them to put inside the DEF door since me or the mechanics are the only ones who are supposed to fill them anyways.



What about a locking door on the DEF?

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2016 :  07:47:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The first few buses had locks, we ended up switching them out for thumb latches. We don't open them enough or something because the locks seized/corroded. Had to drill out a couple of them.
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torque
Advanced Member

Canada
358 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2016 :  07:52:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We take the lock on the fuel door and put them on the DEF doors, but some buses have other lockable compartments, same key :)
We have been lucky so far, just happened the once.
We spray the locks every 3 months with Krown, since then we have not had any sieze.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2016 :  05:14:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The corrosive properties of the DEF is probably causing the problem. I know fertilizer companies have a lot of problems. DEF is, essentially, fertilizer.

Bryan
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