School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 cummins DEF systems
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Cal Mc
Advanced Member

303 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2014 :  7:26:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cal Mc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Has anyone come up with a fix for freezing DEF systems? When our temperatures hit -20F the buses with DEF systems drop like flies.
The DEF in the tanks is frozen solid and the heating system is too slow to thaw the block of ice in the tank before the bus shuts down.
The heating system may work fine in a medium duty chassis, but add 4 large heater cores that a bus uses and the problems start.

gotta love engineers

Fastback
Top Member

1500 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  05:02:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An Espar or Webasto auxiliary heater

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

slippert
Top Member

USA
630 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  06:04:35 AM  Show Profile  Click to see slippert's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I am curious about freezing issues myself, We are taking delivery on 3 new busses with DEF systems soon. I was informed by bus dealer that the DEF isn't needed for the first 90 minutes of operation, so their theory is the tank has plenty of time to unthaw fluid in operation.. before any DEF is needed.. and with some local routes in this area are lucky to be over 90 minutes in duration. I can see where bus use could be alot different than over the road use...Time will tell I suppose,lol..

Where are you located Cal Mc?
Go to Top of Page

krmvcs
Advanced Member

362 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  07:25:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have several HDX's with these setups but being in california i dont have to deal with extreme cold. webastos are cool but add on a whole host of other maintenance/repair issues. if its that cold where you are i assume you use block heaters. why not add an auxiliary electric booster pump to the cooling system? or a heating pad next to the def tank?

-Ken-
Go to Top of Page

eshover
Senior Member

146 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  07:29:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit eshover's Homepage  Reply with Quote
WE have two All Americans and did not have any issues last winter and it was cold for a long stretch. They will freeze but usually thaw out pretty quickly.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  08:04:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know what I'm going to say, right? lol

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Cal Mc
Advanced Member

303 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2014 :  7:47:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cal Mc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To Slippert
We are in west central Alberta

To Bwest
We have two propane units we bought for a trial. Love the buses. Effectively no warranty coverage, which makes them scary s..t to deal with.
Go to Top of Page

earl1412
Senior Member

101 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2014 :  05:53:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cal Mc

Has anyone come up with a fix for freezing DEF systems?
gotta love engineers


We've 5 units with ISB 6.7L engines in BlueBird Visions, and the dealer had a software update that only took DEF levels when shutting down. This is due to the level sensors in the tanks that use a sonar type of pulse. When the fluid is frozen it traps air in it and the signal returned tells the computer that it is empty and to derate or shut down. Check with your service center for this update program.
earl
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2014 :  5:12:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cal Mc

To Slippert
We are in west central Alberta

To Bwest
We have two propane units we bought for a trial. Love the buses. Effectively no warranty coverage, which makes them scary s..t to deal with.



I don't want to hijack this thread but how can you have no warranty, I don't understand.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2014 :  5:36:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For the Birds (Probably all Cumnmins, bird is all I see and all I really care about) there is an update that can (and should be done) to the ECM to correct this issue. Call your Cummins/Bird dealer.

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


Go to Top of Page

namao
Senior Member

Canada
89 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2014 :  07:08:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit namao's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Were located north central Alberta and all I can say is once it gets below 25- 30 c for any amount of time its a issue. Last year we actually installed some battery blankets on the tanks to keep them thawed over night and that did seem to help. Warranty is a issue as well because the dealer gets so backed up it takes weeks not days to get in when the temp drops. So far its been pretty warm but it will get cold.
Go to Top of Page

Cal Mc
Advanced Member

303 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2014 :  8:01:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cal Mc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Effectively no warranty coverage on our propane units"
-no Bluebird dealer within 100 miles.
-we were told before purchase that Ford would be taking care of our powertrain warranty. We have not found a Ford dealer within 100 miles willing to work on the propane system or give us warranty on the rest of the powertrain.
We only have two units and cannot justify the $7000 worth of diagnostic equipment for the powertrain.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2014 :  8:31:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't understand these Ford dealers! These things are easier to work on than a darned old power stroke! Fear of the unknown I guess. The truth is, the propane system doesn't add much complication to the engine at all.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2022 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.08 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000