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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2014 : 12:19:51 PM
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Just noticed while trolling through the IC bus site that the Maxxforce 7 V8 is no longer listed as an option on the CE bus.
Yeah I know, emissions, fuel dilution of the oil, won't be missed, knew the day was coming, yada, yada, yada. Just thought it was noteworthy to no longer be listed. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2014 : 1:24:45 PM
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They'll just make another crappy V8 lol...
How is the Cummins V8? Anyone tried them yet? |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2014 : 1:41:01 PM
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| Without Ford for a customer they probably don't need to or have the economy of scale to afford to develop another V8, "crappy" or otherwise. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 09/03/2014 1:41:33 PM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2014 : 2:14:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
Without Ford for a customer they probably don't need to or have the economy of scale to afford to develop another V8, "crappy" or otherwise.
Yeah, we've had this discussion on here before about V8s being crappy. lol Even though it makes no sense, it seems that there is no win when producing a V8 diesel.
I have also wondered about the Cummins V8. You would think that it would be good being a Cummins but who knows. |
Bryan |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2014 : 06:00:10 AM
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| Best V8 made IMHO is the 444E, I'm sure many of you will agree. |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2014 : 9:30:00 PM
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I think Joe might have missed the t444e years with the neverending burned manifold tubes,cold weather fuel pump leaks,sticking turbo backpressure devices, leaking oil coolers,blown oil pan dispstick tube adapters,snapping manifold bolts,stuck closed thermostats,injector wiring harness burning, ipr valves, leaking turbo pedistals, blown high pressure hoses, stuck open oil pressure regulators, perpetual idler bearing failures, glow plugs and relays with short timers disease,leaking rear main seal plates, broken flex plates,bad high pressure pumps ,leaking front cover gaskets, bad high pressure sensors, fuel pump pipes wearing holes in them and much more Im sure I forgot about.
Sadly I will have to agree the vt365 makes the t444e look like a rock solid platform .
I think I would wait 3-4 years to see how a joint venture v8 diesel between nissan and cummins who have little experience in medium duty v8 strict emissions pans out before buying one.
I cant express what a shock the cummins isb was when we started buying them. I was worried I might lose my job as not being needed anymore. As luck would have it we have enough maxxforce 7,powerstrokes and vt365's to keep me drowning in work till they get retired.
Rant over. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4545 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 04:11:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mastertech
I think Joe might have missed the t444e years with the neverending burned manifold tubes,cold weather fuel pump leaks,sticking turbo backpressure devices, leaking oil coolers,blown oil pan dispstick tube adapters,snapping manifold bolts,stuck closed thermostats,injector wiring harness burning, ipr valves, leaking turbo pedistals, blown high pressure hoses, stuck open oil pressure regulators, perpetual idler bearing failures, glow plugs and relays with short timers disease,leaking rear main seal plates, broken flex plates,bad high pressure pumps ,leaking front cover gaskets, bad high pressure sensors, fuel pump pipes wearing holes in them and much more Im sure I forgot about.
Wow....I didn't you worked on the three Vistas I had at my old employer too! I was impressed with the later generations of the 444...but those early ones...holy mother of... |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 04:27:21 AM
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| @mastertech, we've only had about half those issues mentioned. Some of our 95's 444 stil have the original glow plug relay, injectors and injector harnesses, replaced many flex plates and injector harnesses, pan gaskets, rear main seals. 444E + zero emission extras = win...VT365 + EGR cooler = junk engine. I'll admit we've had a few VT365 with almost no issues except the occasional bad connector at the battery box. Replaced 2 VT365 engines in 3 years, have yet to replace a 444E. Just saying... |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 04:48:08 AM
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| I noticed that JoeHEB1 only said the 444E was the best V8, can anyone name a better one? |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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sob
Senior Member
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 04:50:42 AM
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Coming in late on this subject, but I'm a 9.0L fan. Flame suit on.
B |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 05:22:23 AM
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| 9.0!!! lol. We're still running 8.2 Detroit in the coach buses, other than a few seepers and hard to find parts, it's a solid trouble free engine. They bust right off every time, even in the winter. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 07:55:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
9.0!!! lol. We're still running 8.2 Detroit in the coach buses, other than a few seepers and hard to find parts, it's a solid trouble free engine. They bust right off every time, even in the winter.
Yeah, I had three of these things. No trouble except they couldn't pull the hat off your head with a 545 behind them. lol Wouldn't warm up in the winter either. I DON'T miss those days! |
Bryan |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 08:21:03 AM
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I liked the 9.0L.
They were noisy. They were cold hearted.
Up time was near 100% though. Minus the occasional head bolt. |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 11:36:55 AM
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I ran the 3208T in 60 buses for 18 years and as I look at the issues I had back then, they are nothing compared to what I'm dealing with now. Pretty straightforward; everyone of them drove out of here to another school district...so I'm going with it as my favorite V-8. Cold morning start up was a little smokey!
The 7.3 IDI did pretty good too. Never had a 444, and thank god I missed the vt365/6.0! I do have 30 or so 6.4MFs I'm trying to keep together. Even the 6.9 was serviceable... |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 11:42:47 AM
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quote:
I think I would wait 3-4 years to see how a joint venture v8 diesel between nissan and cummins who have little experience in medium duty v8 strict emissions pans out before buying one.
As point of clarification the Cummins 5.0 V8 is not a joint venture with Nissan with regards to development of the engine. Nissan is buying the engine for use in their pick-up but it was wholly designed by Cummins. Just like the Ford Powerstroke with Navistar.
Nissan isn't completely unfamiliar with Diesel powerplants. They have built up to 14.8 liter V12's for use in trucks and buses internationally. From the 70's through the 80's they built everything from 3 to the aforementioned 12 cylinder diesel engine and used them in their UD truck (formerly Nissan Truck) subsidiary. They were also the first truck to use SCR and Urea back in 2004 in their Quon model. UD is now owned by Volvo. It is true they haven't built them to be compliant with current emissions standards but really when you think about it Navistar hasn't yet either  |
Edited by - JRob on 09/05/2014 11:49:17 AM |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2014 : 3:05:13 PM
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| If the MaxxForce 7 engine is being phased out, I wonder what will power the AE and BE buses? Possibly the Cummins V8? or will the ISB fit? |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bus a groove
Senior Member
70 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2014 : 12:07:25 PM
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| Next to go is the Maxxforce DT. |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2014 : 12:30:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bus a groove
Next to go is the Maxxforce DT.
Is this a fact or your opinion? |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2014 : 12:31:04 PM
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| @Bus a groove, our International rep told us that the Maxxforce DT will be discontinued after this year. Could be rumor, could be true. |
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Buslines101
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2014 : 11:19:24 AM
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| I went to a dealer BBQ this summer and international is putting cummins isb's in as the base engine (fact) they had one on display there it was a beautiful thing! Big dog house that wasn't needed and the engine sat nice and high in the frame! Huge improvement over the max 7 and everyone I know at navistar is talking about the td being on thin ice. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2014 : 2:47:13 PM
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| As most of you know I am no fan of IC but the two 2010 DTs I have are pretty good engines. Still don't like the body. lol My main hang up on the body is the stupid plastic dash that rattles itself apart and the student windows. Why on earth would you make a window that doesn't stay shut? Doesn't matter how may parts I throw at it, the dog gone things don't stay closed. ARGH! |
Bryan |
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bus a groove
Senior Member
70 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2014 : 09:07:28 AM
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I heard it from IC engineers and also very reliable source at our dealership.
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
quote:
Originally posted by bus a groove
Next to go is the Maxxforce DT.
Is this a fact or your opinion?
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2014 : 1:10:19 PM
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| Also noticed International seems to have dropped the MaxxForce name from all their engines except the DT and the V8, just theorizing that maybe another sign those two will fade away. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2014 : 2:00:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
Also noticed International seems to have dropped the MaxxForce name from all their engines except the DT and the V8, just theorizing that maybe another sign those two will fade away.
These companies change names around all the time. I wouldn't think that would be a sign of anything except they are trying different marketing techniques. I am fascinated by the marketing at these companies over the years. One of the most interesting moves I've seen in the past 20 some years is that Ford and Chevy got out of the bus business. I was always under the impression that they didn't mind loosing a little money as long as they got their branding in front of those kids. I know my buddies and I were always giving each other ribbings about what brand bus they had to ride home. lol |
Bryan |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 1:52:10 PM
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| I was talking to the head tech at our local dealership about the maxxforce 7 and he said he has been seeing them go to about 150,000 miles relatively trouble free and pretty much let go needing full replacement. We have already had a low mileage one self destruct requiring a complete . Has anyone had similar experience ? |
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earl1412
Senior Member
101 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 4:54:03 PM
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That is exactly what I've been dealing with, but not "relatively" trouble free. So far the buses will average 130 to 150,000 miles, and then the engines need replacement, or extensive repairs. I've had 3 engines so far this year needing either major overhauls, or complete replacements,this goes along with the turbos, up tubes, EGR coolers, oil coolers, wonderful electrical wiring problems! Of 33 buses, I've the dubious honor of having 14 VT365's, and 6 T444E's. I am the only tech with no help, and these buses are all in the mileage range of ticking time bombs.
earl |
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Bassman
Top Member
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2014 : 03:38:02 AM
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| DTA 360 was the best!!! Had 16 of them and never even had a valve cover off! Manual fuel shut off cable and no computers or wires!!!The good old days! |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2014 : 05:00:21 AM
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I would wager we are maybe weeks away from hearing that the Cummins V8 will be the new engine in the IC BE & AE buses and International Terrastar trucks.
All mention of MaxxForce 7 V8 has been dropped from the IC bus website.
Using the engine selector feature on the International truck website, you won't find an engine for the Terrastar which is the base platform for the IC AE bus. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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Topic |
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RIP Maxxforce 7 V8?
