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 2003 DT466E CYLINDER SLEEVE
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got a min
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2014 :  08:04:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit got a min's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have noticed a lot of cylinder sleeve O ring failure. With the expense of an INFRAME REPAIR...... The buses are all over 10 years old 100,000 plus. I've seen this problem since I started in the late 80's. We have a good maintenance program, just wondering if any body does something different?

Winn10
Active Member

27 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2014 :  10:14:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Winn10's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the biggest cause ive noticed is acidic coolant. do you regularly test the coolants ph?
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DougBier
Senior Member

66 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2014 :  10:02:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had 2 older buses have liner seals go .Believe it or not I didn't do an in frame I removed the liners installed new seals and slapped it back to gether using the old parts .Bus had 270000 miles on her and never had any problems . I did check the bearings and they were fine . On another one I did the bearings were no good and the district said no to bearings . Well that one went 16 miles and tossed a rod .I also know on the newr engines they use 1 or 2 seals .Mine used 3
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mhernandez73
Senior Member

55 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2014 :  05:53:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit mhernandez73's Homepage  Reply with Quote
we have bout a dozen of those each one has ahad an in frame repair done on them. each one just over 100k
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eddo
Senior Member

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2014 :  11:46:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
on the 466e's you HAVE to keep an eye on the coolant ph level as Winn10 suggested. If you run regular ethel-glycol, you have to keep additives in the coolant, and a water filter with additives is highly recommended.

You can run a long life coolant, and those do better, but you still ahve to stay on top of them. It is critical, not only for liner oring longevity, but also for the care of the cylinder sleeves themselves.
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Dvorak
Senior Member

United States
52 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2014 :  06:35:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 2003 in our shop now getting a works kit because of this. In the case of these engines (DT466 from 2001-2004) I think a big part of the problem is the liner o-ring itself. We have 9 of these motors in our fleet and so far all but 1 have lost the o-ring. I will say that not one of the liners that I've seen (not covered under warranty) have had any cavitation issues on the liner. I do believe that cooling system maintenance is very critical, but I don't think that's the reason for the failures in these motors. If I get time this summer I might tear down the remaining motor and put new o-rings in it just to prevent a problem in the future.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3336 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2014 :  11:13:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wish I could find the document from International in reference to a known problem on early 2000s DT's. Something to do with piston slap I believe...o-rings couldn't handle it.

Anybody remember that bulletin?
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sambrutay
Advanced Member

United States
235 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2014 :  09:23:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember it well. Also have the documents.
here is a link to a previous discussion

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23503&SearchTerms=piston

Bruce
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got a min
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2014 :  5:02:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit got a min's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is an IKNOW article on this subject. I will post it if you are intrested
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3336 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2014 :  03:57:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Please do, it might help someone else!
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sambrutay
Advanced Member

United States
235 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2014 :  06:45:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote






Bruce
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Crown
Senior Member

67 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2014 :  7:42:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Crown's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I might go along with DT466 O-ring failures coming from some kind of liner movement, but not that the movement is from piston scuffing. At the moment we are doing about one O-ring/in-frame a month and I've never seen any appreciable scuffing. Failures seem about the same whether the cooling system had traditional or OAT coolant. The piston below is from an O-ring job we did this week and the other 5 look similar to this one.




Edited by - Crown on 04/24/2014 7:47:45 PM
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
383 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2014 :  04:26:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to agree with you Crown.... I have found pistons scuffed or almost to the point of seizing the cylinder but only when orings dumped coolant while on a route or in use.... driver didn't notice problem till engine was smoking bad and running rough...

The engines I have caught prior to totally dumping all coolant into crancase....pistons have shown little to no scuffing of piston.... I had noticed on mine it was normally number 3 or 4 cylinder right by block heater and shortly after winter season into spring when I had liner oring issues here as a rule.. Always made me wonder if block heater use had more to do with it then anything?

It was more problematic on engines with ELC red coolant but have had a few of the engines with green standard coolant go down for same reason, although with green coolant orings lasted for higher mileage and age.... I would expect to possibly have an oring fail on an older higher mileage engine but some of these go down way to soon, even with proper cooling system maintaince ... Knock on wood... so far all of my 2004 and newer, egr engines with 240,000 and down... have yet to drop a cylinder for oring failure.... I had most issues with 2001-2003,466 engines with mileages between 100,000 to 150,000...

Edited by - slippert on 04/25/2014 04:31:04 AM
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sambrutay
Advanced Member

United States
235 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2014 :  04:33:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You will know a scuffing problem when you pull the piston. you will see that it has hit on both sides of the pin boss. also it usually ruins the piston and liner (#2 and #5 pistons most commonly if I remember right).

Bruce
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
383 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2014 :  05:02:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay

You will know a scuffing problem when you pull the piston. you will see that it has hit on both sides of the pin boss. also it usually ruins the piston and liner (#2 and #5 pistons most commonly if I remember right).



Most definetly,,, if a piston is scuffed you would know it when you pull it... and when orings fail or are failing.. that particular cylinder isn't getting cooled properly and can cause parts to overheat and expand there by causing it to scuff(excessive combustion temp)... just saying...piston is aluminum and does melt with excessive heat..

Edited by - slippert on 04/25/2014 05:04:42 AM
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