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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member
Canada
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2014 : 12:59:21 PM
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Hey guys,
Anybody out there experiencing a "higher than normal" block heater failure?
In the past couple of weeks we've had 2 FS-65's & my Maxx force DT IC burn up their block heater. These buses are all parked at various locations. Last year we had mine again, and a couple other DT Ic's.
My '13 IC has had 3 block heater elements put into it since it was new. Without that block heater this bus will not start for me even when temps are around -8 C.
When the continuity is checked the element shows an open circuit, and when the element is removed from the block they are all corroded and burned up.
One thing another mechanic from a neighboring bus garage noted was that we use straight (not 50/50) long life anti-freeze, and they always mix their's 50/50 with water. Could this be a cause?
Someone(not really sure who) had told our mechanics to use straight coolant a while back, and we have ever since.
Just your thoughts...
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Edited by - 1983ChevroletWayne on 02/19/2014 1:01:21 PM
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2014 : 2:10:14 PM
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Never heard of anyone using 100% coolant. Coolant actually loses antifreeze protection at higher concentrations. I use 50/50 premix. I've had 3 block heaters fail this year, all open. Fleet of 34.
Make sure the drivers are unplugging before starting the bus too. |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2014 : 3:25:39 PM
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FYI; Some coolant comes ready to use(RTU) and if it does, may not need dilution. If you buy RTU and mix it 50/50, that would not be good either. |
Edited by - Mechan1c on 02/19/2014 3:26:13 PM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 05:31:17 AM
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One failure in a fleet of 17 this year. Antifreeze should be mixed 50/50 if you want full benefit of protection. I use pre-mix in my cats and use other mixed full strength in all others. I only use distilled water when mixing myself. I get a lot of weird looks when I walk out of the little grocery store with a case of distilled water. Even the book keeper here wanted to know why I was buying so much drinking water. lol |
Bryan |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 07:16:31 AM
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I'll bet that is what the mechanics are using. Premix, the OP may be unaware of this. I buy premix (RTU) so I don't have to buy distilled water.
Block heater failures seem to run in cycles here, like many repairs :)
quote: Originally posted by Mechan1c
FYI; Some coolant comes ready to use(RTU) and if it does, may not need dilution. If you buy RTU and mix it 50/50, that would not be good either.
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member
Canada
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 12:49:26 PM
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Has anyone ever heard that coolant with water added (50/50) would screw up the newer EGR systems and cause premature failure? Apparently that's what our mechanics were told. |
Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"
Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org" |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 1:19:11 PM
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I think bwest referenced that with his comment about distilled water. |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 4:08:28 PM
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quote: Has anyone ever heard that coolant with water added (50/50) would screw up the newer EGR systems and cause premature failure? Apparently that's what our mechanics were told.
I got tired of mixing coolant at work, because i had some lazy drivers dump straight water in the overflow.... which caked the bottom of the overflow with green gunk, so I buy pre-mix. Less headaches. |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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Edited by - bluebirdvision on 02/20/2014 4:57:37 PM |
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member
303 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2014 : 8:22:10 PM
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I have changed 5 block heaters in the 12 IC /MaxforceDT buses in the last three months. At one point IC had no block heaters in their system in Canada! I had one bus sitting for three weeks waiting for a block heater. All of our busses are parked out. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2014 : 04:25:09 AM
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quote: Originally posted by 1983ChevroletWayne
Has anyone ever heard that coolant with water added (50/50) would screw up the newer EGR systems and cause premature failure? Apparently that's what our mechanics were told.
Depends on the water. Best practice is to use the premix coolant. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member
Canada
173 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2014 : 08:17:43 AM
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Just burned my block heater out again. Only 3 weeks old. It sat for 3 days plugged in, so i'm wondering if it's something to do with sitting too long plugged in. I'm going to try a timer on my next block heater. |
Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"
Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org" |
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aaronwilmoth80911
Top Member
538 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2014 : 9:13:01 PM
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We use the pink extended life coolant in our entire fleet and don't have many issues with block heaters. We have changed more CAT block heaters than Internationals (444 and MaxxForceDT). I'm in Colorado and typically ours stay plugged in for long periods of time if they aren't being driven, and we haven't had many issues. I would say less than 10 all year with a fleet of 70. Maybe have an electrician check the electrical outside. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2014 : 08:52:19 AM
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I'd definitely be looking at your power source. I regularly have spare buses plugged in 24/7 in winter and don't see that many failures. But let's not forget that this could be a case of "Made in China syndrome". |
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2014 : 03:26:07 AM
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I have had problems with the block heaters in the Maxxforce DT engines the post 10 emission models I had to replace some twice this year... During the Feb Cold snap at one time International had 0 in the warehouse. and they were on national Back Order.... But at any rate I have all new outlets and cords for the buses this year.. The Rep at IC said they have been failing quite a bit. I had found some at the IC dealer they had 10 in stock I took 8 even though I needed 2 at the time. And Patrick they are made in the USA well atleast what is stamped on them. |
wow. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2014 : 5:40:42 PM
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Still made here? That's a miracle! |
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2014 : 5:57:53 PM
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Yes they are! I just changed another one yesterday. The rep from IC said I'm not using the correct oil for cold climate. He said 15 40 is too thick. |
wow. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2014 : 04:18:32 AM
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So.......you are using the wrong oil and that is making the block heaters go bad? That sounds like an IC answer! |
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2014 : 07:57:14 AM
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Thats IC's answer for the buses not startinmg when its in the teens and below. Im glad they didn't say I was the only one with this problem... |
wow. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2014 : 08:17:13 AM
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15W-40 is only approved down to +20 F |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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slippert
Top Member
USA
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2014 : 11:15:05 AM
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For some reason on my fleet of 34 the newer IH block heaters seem to fail more frequently also...... I have worked here for 10 yrs and hardly ever had a block heater fail before unless it was 10 yrs old or more.. pre 2007 engines with the clamp in style heaters, I don't remember changing half a dozen of them..... I still have 14 busses 02-06 that have original heaters in them...plugged in 24/7 when temps are below 10 degrees..just the same as newer busses are... I have at least 3-5 of the bolt in style heaters fail every year sine they started using them in the 07 emission engines and newer.. The oil viscosity does make a difference at sub-zero temps... but personally know if the block fails even with lighter weight oil in engine these I/C's( mainly the 2012's) don't like to fire up on cold mornings!! Mine are all the I-6 engines and I use the premixed RTU antifreeze purchased in a 55 gallon barrel |
Edited by - slippert on 03/17/2014 11:23:11 AM |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2014 : 3:19:57 PM
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Yes the block heaters are failing more frequently. The quality just isnt the same as they used to be. Make sure you dont have power surges in your systems too. Just a thought. And I am presently an IC dealer tech. I recommend stocking up on seasonal items before the season hits. I could talk for an hour on coolant issues. The best advise I can offer is to learn about the differences of coolant and water. Make sure your drivers understand the importance of proper maintenance. New cooling systems need special attention. You can't maintain a cooling system today like you used to twenty years ago. Summer is about here. Now is the time to prepare for next winter with proper maintenance and training. |
Brad A. Barker |
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