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second.flood
Advanced Member

USA
355 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  07:20:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a meeting Friday with my dealer rep and a Navistar rep.
We will be discussing our 2007 emission maxforce dt's and ongoing issues. One bus will be the focus of the talks, a 2008 that has spent more than a year in the shop for soot/clogging of the AFT system. From clogged DPF (x3), DOC and EGR and coolers, and multiple sensor replacements, to numerous codes/lights and poor performance.
It is obvious the root issue has never been repairs and the "fixes" are just band-aids.
This bus has two months of warranty left and we will be asking for an extension.
Our fleet is 100% International (34 units).
Any ideas on questions to ask or any info as ammo to get some relief, fire away!

Thanks!

Fastback
Top Member

972 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  09:20:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why not ask them about buying back your most problematic buses?

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2296 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  09:25:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know they won't answer this but, wonder what they are going to do to meet EPA regulations after their credits run out? I also wonder if they plan to introduce a propane unit. It looks as if Thomas is going to come out with one shortly. As a side note, Blue Bird could have gained their market share back if they would have went for the jugular by dropping the bottom out of the price on these propane units. Oh well, it's water under the bridge now.

Good luck at your meeting!

Bryan
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Brad Barker
Administrator

USA
838 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  6:22:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Brad Barker's Homepage  Click to see Brad Barker's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
SCR will be phased in by the time credits run out. Presently they are focusing their efforts on the big bore engines. Cummins and IC have partnered with the ISX for the big engines. I am not sure if they will be going to Cummins ISL in the buses or modifying Navistar engines with SCR. Currently all new Pro Star trucks come with the ISX engine.

Brad A. Barker
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second.flood
Advanced Member

USA
355 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  08:26:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Had the meeting today. Navistar rep is taking the case to his bosses.
On the table is a complete new engine and exhaust all the way to a buy back.
The bus is still churning out soot.
I'll update as new information comes in.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
379 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  11:06:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If this is the same bus u were talking about in the other post u put up....I'll be very curious about the outcome...
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second.flood
Advanced Member

USA
355 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  11:33:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Same bus.... I'm curious too :)
We have a 100% Navistar fleet, that fact was firmly stated to the Navistar guy.
This bus has spent 314 days at the dealer over 4+ years.
My boss wants a new bus. We'll see.
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RichBusman
Advanced Member

451 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  5:08:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know some districts here were offered extended warranties to 10 years at no charge on their VT365s. Not sure what DT users were compensated with.
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Bassman
Top Member

USA
510 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2013 :  04:12:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am very interested in the outcome also. I have one bus that has been at a dealership for the last 3 weeks and as I walk back in from vacation today, there is a note on my desk for one that is 4 inches overfull, one that is 3 inches overfull and one the is 1 inch overfull. What a pain in the butt. The sad thing is that I told them about this years ago and there has been no proactive attempt to change the design flaws in this engine's aftertreatment system and now I will be stuck with 10 of these units, just like I am stuck with 22 VT365's. I do have a dealer that is trying to push to fix one of these for me, but what we need help from is corporate.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2296 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2013 :  07:00:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bassman

I am very interested in the outcome also. I have one bus that has been at a dealership for the last 3 weeks and as I walk back in from vacation today, there is a note on my desk for one that is 4 inches overfull, one that is 3 inches overfull and one the is 1 inch overfull. What a pain in the butt. The sad thing is that I told them about this years ago and there has been no proactive attempt to change the design flaws in this engine's aftertreatment system and now I will be stuck with 10 of these units, just like I am stuck with 22 VT365's. I do have a dealer that is trying to push to fix one of these for me, but what we need help from is corporate.



These engines are used in more than school buses, right? So, is anyone else having trouble? I thought we were out of this kind of hocus pocus type stuff when carpenter went out of business. It just seams to me that they are trying to avoid this. I have learned that the longer you avoid something the bigger it gets (seems like common sense, duh). For your sake (and others), I hope they can get these issue cleared up. At least you have a good dealer. The dealer issue is the main reason I try to avoid this brand if at all possible. I just don't get the first class service at either Thomas or IC as I do my BB dealer.

Bryan
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bus a groove
Senior Member

70 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2013 :  07:43:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am having the same issues with the Maxxforce DT. We have 4 2012 IC with that engine.
We are having the heavy soot go into the engine. We have sent them into the shop with that problem.
IC is blaming it on the turbo. They do a clean up kit on it but when we go back in for other reasons we see that the soot is still going into the engine.
I have photographed all the intake butterfly valves all have around 1/4"-1/2" of soot built up and oil residue present.
Our dealership hands are tied from the IC end. We have had regional rep involved. My opinion is IC does not want to open the can of worms at this time, but they are going to have to do something sometime.
We have been sampling every oil change with dirty results coming back every time.
At this time all we can try do is document everything we can.
Another problem we are having is blowing the orings on the high pressure oil line. One of our RE have already had 4 failures while only being in service for a year.
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