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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2001 : 1:11:14 PM
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| With recent accidents in the past couple of years due to elder drivers in my state of Virgina, I was wondering what the overall reation was to the rules. Should there be laws restricting drivers to be of a certain age?? Should they have more physicals?? Though children were only bruised, where and when is the line drawn??? |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2001 : 1:36:42 PM
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There is an excellent article regarding this topic in March's issue of SBF magazine. If you do not have a subscription, I encourage you to visit their website at: www.schoolbusfleet.com. Click on "current issue" near the bottom of the page, and that will give you a list of the features in March's issue. I am sure the one about elderly drivers will be in there. If it is, just click on it and read it for yourself!!!!
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2001 : 1:50:42 PM
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I have read the article and my interests are now sparked a lot more. I want to know how actual bus drivers react to the topic; and how actual bus drivers react to numerous law suits across the country from children's parents resulting from elderly accidents, even death.
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bc24
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2001 : 9:05:15 PM
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I have one bus driver that will turn 80 in Oct. He is in perfect health. I would send my own childern on his bus and feel save. I have younger drivers that I wouldnt fell as safe with. It all depends on the person themselve.
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2001 : 7:04:49 PM
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In addition to the above information, I would just like to mention that I believe it hugely depends on how well the elderly drivers take care of themselves including: physically, emotionally, mentally (stress level--high or low--included), and their overall health and well-being in general. Also, any hereditary factors or inherited genes from previous ancestors may also come into play here as well.
Bob
"B. Busguy33" |
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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2001 : 07:06:52 AM
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Throughout my research, I have found that very few school systems actually have a requisite physical requirement for their drivers. Very few are tested, and the only perequisite is a CDL (I have found some that only require a limited amount of driving experience). With the level of stress that drivers incur on a daily basis, shouldn't drivers be tested physically.
In addition, over the weekend there was yet another bus crash induced by a driver passing out at the wheel. A student was able to grab the wheel and pull the bus over to safety before any real damage was done. Some are saying that children should be trained to handle such situations, but if we as society feel children are not ready to drive the family car until 16, whose idea is it to train 6-7 year olds to control a very large school bus with 20-30 other childrens' lives in their hands??????
Brian.
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Phoneman
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2001 : 12:56:57 PM
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I retired last year after working 52 yrs, the last 16 driving a school bus. My experience shows me there are older drivers that should not be driving and there also young drivers that should not be driving. I think most school districts have found that the seniors is more dependable. They get paid on Fri. am and will be back that pm to drive there route.
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2001 : 6:44:30 PM
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bc24
A driver that is 80, I don't care what kind of health you are in that is to old.
In MI you can not drive a school bus after the age of 72.
I think it is a good rule, you hate to see some of your older drivers go, some are still really good, but the ones that are not are usually a big safety problem.
All drivers should go through a physical periodically(say every 2 years) some districts do not require it.
There was an article related to this in the March edition of SBF-look it up in the arcives.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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Corey
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2001 : 8:11:13 PM
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I'am from Michigan also and I've never heard of such law. Is this in the C.D.L. hand book? I've been told different things or ages about this issue. I do happen to know a driver in another district who is older than 72. please let me know.
Corey Lane |
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Busrepair
Senior Member
121 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2001 : 05:33:49 AM
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If there is not anything in the state laws there should something in your schools policies. I think it is Federal law (check your CDL book) that you get a physical every year. I know we are required in the state of Ohio to have one each year. It is possible that it is in the Ohio State Board of Education Rules and Regulations but I think there is also something in the Federal Laws.
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draatz
Senior Member
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2001 : 08:02:39 AM
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AGE????
Don't you all think that this is a touchy subject for any company to face? I am starting my 7 th years as a driver, and would like to retire doing this job.
As we age our reflexes and reaction times become slower; and our bodies become quicker to degreneration and injury. I am not sure if older drivers, wether they can pass the DOT physical or not, should be allowed to drive pass a certain age. I know, that most have the ability to do it, but lets face it... it sure would be hard for the majority of us to climb in and out of a back door in our 70's and 80's. Heck, its hard for us younger ones in our 30's!!!
I know that we have several elderly drivers here in our district... and from what I can tell, accident ratio between older and younger drivers are about the same, withthe exception thatyounger drivers tend to have less costly accidents. Could this be reaction time????
I don't think I would be too confrontable with my child riding on a bus with an older driver; experience or not, I think I would worry alot. I have see on eof our elderly drivers daily on my route... and even thought there is an aide on that bus... heavens...talk about scarey.
You also have to think about the risk for death with older drivers. Heart attcks, strokes, respertory failure, and just plain old age, could incapacitate a driver behind the wheel and put students at risk.
How about iniating a program where we put our older drivers on the buses as aides; big and small buses, kinda of like a foster grandparent. COuldn't we all use a bit of help now and then???
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2001 : 1:42:45 PM
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Corey
The age 72 law is not for all CDL licenses in the state of MI, just for School Bus Drivers, I has been this way for many years. I will try and find some more info on it for you.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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WayneLifguard44
Senior Member
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2001 : 5:12:00 PM
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I do not think there should be an age limit. Most of the drivers out now are older and they do a good job. They should have regular check-ups and if there is a health problem that could cause a risk it should be taken into condieration. I also think that if the drivers are having problems driving they should have check ups to see if the driving is still good or bad. Then go from there. I do not think they should just be like well so and so is this old they are out! Other issues need to be taken into consideration before age!
Wayne Lifeguard44 -Tyler |
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cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2001 : 9:23:25 PM
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I worked with a gentleman who retired after 22 years as a school bus driver at the age of 83. At the time of his retirement he was as good a driver as he was at age 63 and at age 73.
He was a dedicated driver who went to his personal doctor every August to get a physical. He wasn't required to but he did it because he thought it was the responsible thing to do.
At the same time I worked with a gentleman who was age 65. He should have retired at least two years previously. His health finally required him to retire. If he hadn't been forced he would have kept driving because you can't fire someone just because they are over so many years old.
In both cases I would have rather riden with them than with some younger drivers. The two older men at least knew their limitations.
Mark O.
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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2001 : 08:03:15 AM
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Just yesterday, yet another bus accident occurred in Virginia. A high school team was on their way to a game when the bus caught fire driving down the interstate. The coach of the team was driving the bus and was able to look beyond the terrible smoke and safely pull off the highway. The coach was also able to implement an evacuation plan and even pull a couple of students off the bus. A hero indeed.
What would have happend if an elderly driver was behind the wheel during this crisis? The smoke could have been too large of an obstacle to overcome, and certainly pulling teenagers off a burning bus would have been troubling. Thank God everyone was alright.
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Frank, Bus #150
Senior Member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2001 : 8:46:30 PM
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Youngbuc;
Since you are interested in older driver's safety records I expect that you are also interested in the safety records of younger drivers. True?
Could you cite for us the Virginia statistics on how many "preventable accidents" older drivers have, compared to the younger ones?
I believe this will be a really interesting comparison.
While I am unable to provide the same statistics for my state (Illinois) I can tell you that in the group (113 drivers) where I drive, there is a handfull of senior drivers and so far this school year there has not been one "preventable accident" among those seniors. I cannot say the same for the juniors.
Frank, Bus #150
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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2001 : 06:56:05 AM
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Frank;
I will attempt to find the records of junior drivers here in VA and compare the numbers for everyone. I agree with you that the numbers are going to be interesting, and I am sure some will be shocked with the outcomes.
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Frank, Bus #150
Senior Member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2001 : 8:37:43 PM
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Youngbuc;
"...The coach of the team was driving the bus and was able to look beyond the terrible smoke and safely pull off the highway. The coach was also able to implement an evacuation plan and even pull a couple of students off the bus."
If a REAL school bus driver had been driving that bus, instead of a "coach", I suspect that whatever caused the fire would have been caught during the "pre-trip inspection". Something I seriously doubt if teachers concern themselves with very much.
As for the coach being a "hero", do you really believe that high school team members actually needed anyone to "pull" them to safety through the smoke?
I suspect that even a doddering old-timer of, say 70-80 years could have been a hero in that case.
Frank, Bus #150
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2001 : 1:47:39 PM
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Excuse me Frank, Bus #150:
What is your definition of a real school bus driver?? Because a coach is going to have to go through the same training as a quote "Real" school bus driver. Not every fire on a bus is going to be prevented by a pre-trip.
I am not a coach, but I do not think it is appropriate to say that they would not concern themselves with safety, as a quote "real" bus driver would.
"Thomas Built Buses-The best buses on the Road." |
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MrBusDriver
Senior Member
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2001 : 6:47:14 PM
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quote:
If a REAL school bus driver had been driving that bus, instead of a "coach", I suspect that whatever caused the fire would have been caught during the "pre-trip inspection". Something I seriously doubt if teachers concern themselves with very much.
As for the coach being a "hero", do you really believe that high school team members actually needed anyone to "pull" them to safety through the smoke?
I suspect that even a doddering old-timer of, say 70-80 years could have been a hero in that case.
THANK YOU! I am tired of this whole age issue. If you can adequately perform your job... :::ahem::: ...PRETRIP INCLUDED then continue driving. I am working with drivers who drove me when I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL and I can say with all honesty that I would be 150% confident in putting my children on those buses!
Coaches driving the team... get real. The coach is there to coach and I have WATCHED coaches "pretrip" a bus.
"Yep, my lights are there and I think there's an engine in there... well, it starts and moves forward... must be good to go!"
GIVE ME A BREAK. I think ANYONE in that circumstance that was a REAL bus driver would have caught something truly preventable in pretrip, and ANYONE in that circumstance unless incapacitated by an accident would have been able to get the students off the bus safely. It's what we're all here for... it's what we do!
Hero, shmero. Get a REAL driver!
-- Mr Bus Driver
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2001 : 8:59:57 PM
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I'm gonna disagree with you on the "real" bus driver thing...Keep in mind that, by federal law, anyone who drives a school bus with more than 15 passengers has to have a CDL. CDL training includes proper driving AND the pre-trip. Any CDL driver who doesn't properly pre-trip the vehicle can lose their license--I've seen it happen. They also become liable for any defects in the vehicle.
If a coach has a CDL so they can drive the bus, there's nothing wrong with that. However, being a coach doesn't take away any of their responsibility as a bus driver, and they must be held to the same standards as anyone else who drives the bus.
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Frank, Bus #150
Senior Member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2001 : 9:16:37 PM
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A "REAL" bus driver is a "professional" (even though part time, underpaid and misunderstood) whose job is to drive a school bus.
A teacher who drops by the bus garage to pick up a bus for his sports trip is not only taking work away from a REAL driver but because of his lack of bus driving experience is putting students at risk.
To make my point, just last week I was doing a sports trip and heard, over my radio, a coach attempting to call our base. She couldn't get her bus to start. Everyone had left for home at the bus garage.
I answered her call and convinced the coach on my bus that we should go and try to help her.
When we arrived I discovered that she had left the gear shift lever in "drive" and naturally the bus wouldn't start.
This was someone that had been trusted with a 78 passenger Bluebird, plus the lives of half a busload of students. (Note to "Youngbuc", she was a fairly young person.)
Greyhound Bus Company has(had?) a motto that goes something like, Leave the Driving to REAL school bus drivers. I think they had a good point there.
Frank, Bus #150
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youngbuc
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2001 : 05:51:03 AM
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First and foremost, let me begin my stating that the driving of buses should be left up to the "REAL" bus drivers as many of you have put it. I 100% agree. I also agree that there should be no discrimination or bullying in modern society; however when the lives of children are at stake, this is not a time to pat ourselves on the back and blame the incompetance of others. In an idealistic world, of course only trained professionals would drive our children; however in the "REAL" world, a few bad apples in this profession have had the same CDL training, yet choose to drink on the job, speed, smoke on the bus??? If coaches are going to drive the bus, then give them the proper training and education needed to work closely in the shadows of those true, "REAL" bus drivers.
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Silas J.
Top Member
USA
938 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2001 : 10:27:24 AM
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We had one of our senior(Jake was probably the oldest)drivers retire at the end of last year.He was supposedly the best driver in the county or something like that.Coaches driving????!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!Like some of the earlier posts said,leave the driving to the REAL drivers.
It depends on the condition of an eldery driver in my opinion.If they have major medical problems or something,they probably shouldn't be driving.
Silas J.
97-12 It will outrun your bus.
Posts dedicated to 87-24
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busdrivinwoman
Senior Member
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2001 : 09:51:33 AM
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It is in the laws that every year a driver must have a physical and an abstract done to ensure the drivers capable of still driving. Does your district also do an evuluation every year with each driver? The age of a bus driver should not matter. I know of some elder drivers that do a much better job than the younger ones. His or her driving record should be proof enough that they are still capable of driving a bus. Let's face it, any one of us could have a wreck tomorrow, whether we are young or old.
safety is number one, ohio school bus driver |
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Topic |
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Elderely Drivers
