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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2013 : 05:33:12 AM
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| Just curious what you guys consider tires too old to run although the tread is still good? I remember someone saying tires over 5 years old should be changed, that it was law (Texas). Same question for your white fleet. |
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wrench slinger
Active Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 10:20:19 AM
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| i think the rule is 5 years, the tire guy that buy's our take offs won't buy anything over 6 years and if it's a hankook 5 years |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 10:24:33 AM
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| The 5 year thing is for re-tread casings. I don't think there is a law in Illinois about tire age, could be wrong. |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 10:42:41 AM
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What's yall's policy or rule?quote:
Originally posted by bwest
The 5 year thing is for re-tread casings. I don't think there is a law in Illinois about tire age, could be wrong.
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 12:36:00 PM
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| We don't have a policy, I just watch the tires very close. |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 1:08:12 PM
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| Same here but some of the white fleet don't get used often and sit in the sun, the sun eats the tire up so we end up replacing tires with good tread on them. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 1:58:33 PM
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| Well, I guess that's just the way it has to be. I don't generally have that problem here but have never been called out on replacing a safety item on a bus either. Which is about 90 some percent of the bus. lol |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 2:17:03 PM
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| Exactly why we do it, wouldn't want an administrator having a blow out on one of the white fleet vehicles, and definately don't want a blow out on a bus full of kiddos. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 09:23:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joeheb
Exactly why we do it, wouldn't want an administrator having a blow out on one of the white fleet vehicles, and definately don't want a blow out on a bus full of kiddos.
Yep, not to mention big repercussions when the dust settles. What does you tire dealer have to say about this? |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 10:54:50 AM
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| They won't buy casings from us older than 5 years old, but we don't gauge it by that. Like you, we keep a close eye on the tires, we have no rule or policy on the age of the tire. We change our bus tires between 4-5 32nd. Not sure if its law here in Texas about the 5yr old tire thing. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 11:51:28 AM
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| 4/32 front and 2/32 rear is the law here in the People's Republic of Illinois. I guess to get more specific on my question, have you ask your tire dealer what they recommend on how long to run your tires. Now, I know they are selling tires and want you to buy more but normally these guys will tell you the industry standard where it applies. You might remind them that if they tell you a bunch of bull there are other places that sell tires. |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 1:00:01 PM
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| Same law applies here in the People's Republic of Texas, I'll call my tire guy and grill em about that. Good idea, I'll keep you posted. Thanks. |
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mike9
Active Member
11 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 06:09:57 AM
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| Here in the razorback state its 6yrs on casing,and no more than 2 trips to the retreader |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 07:09:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mike9
Here in the razorback state its 6yrs on casing,and no more than 2 trips to the retreader
So they make you change the tires at 6 years no matter what the tread depth is? |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 08:31:42 AM
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Update: I emailed my 3 tires guys and this is what I asked them "At what age should tires be changed? Is there a law or manufacturer recommendation for this? For example, I have a school bus with 7 year old tires on it but the tread depth is still 10-12/32nd.
I heard years ago that it was law in Texas that tires should be changed at 5 years, maybe a DOT regulation not sure. Just curious what the tire experts have to say about this."
And these were their responses:
1."I know on Pass/LT tires there is really no time limit but the industry recommends 7-8 years of service on the vehicle I am not sure about School Buses I think that it would be State/DOT controlled for safety reasons to about 5 years."
2."To the best of our knowledge there is not an age limit on tires.
As long as they are weather checked you should be ok."
3."I JUST ASKED MY BOSS HE IS THE COMMERCIAL TIRE GUY AND HE SAID THAT THERE IS NO ACTUAL PULL OFF TIME FRAME BUT TYPICAL IS 10 YEARS BUT FOR BUSES AND RV’S HE SAID FOR MORE OR LESS SAFETY REASONS IT MAY BE GOOD TO GO AHEAD AND REPLACE THEM AFTER 5 YEARS."
Does this answer my question? Not really. What do you guys think?
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 09:37:58 AM
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| Interesting! So, there are no real, rock solid guidelines. This is exactly what I thought you'd get. I have seen tires run, on farm trucks, for 30 years or more with no problems. Here's where your going to run into problems. A set of tires have been in service on a bus for 12 years & tread looks good. The bus is used occasionally on a local route or two when the regular bus is being worked on. You (or someone) decides "hey we have that low mileage bus out there, how about we start running it on that special route going to XYZ town (60 miles away) for little Jonny who has a discipline problem we can't take care of here" You run it a few days and the cycle of heating up and cooling off on the long trip starts to take its toll on the old tire. One hot day while driving 55-60 MPH and.... CABOOM!! |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 11:23:17 AM
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| CABOOM!!! Is right...so then the last guy to sign off on the work order saying it was safe to operate with 5+ year old tires is in deep doo doo if that bus turns over and hurts or even kills somebody. I think I'll check with DOT and see what answer they give. The boss won't like it if we have to replace tires cause of their age. Replacing older tires is cheaper than the liability riding on the tires. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 11:31:53 AM
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| That's the way I try to look at it. Liability aside, I want to be able to live with myself! I just can't imagine loosing a child. I love my two boys dearly and life would end if something happened to them. So that is the way I approach my job. Sometimes it gets hard but then I pull myself up out of the doldrums by thinking how important my job is. Thanks for all you do and thanks for the discussion. It has made me think about what I am doing and that is always a good thing! |
Bryan |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 2:51:57 PM
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OK, I found this to be interesting reading. Again these people are selling tires. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138
Needless to say there is talk out there in the tire industry about age. Put tire ageing or recommended tire age in your search engine. As much as the government has been intruding in our lives it looks like they would have touched on this subject already. Some lobby some where is against it so nothing's being done. Of course a lobby is just a bunch of us getting together as a group to petition our government, now isn't it. |
Bryan |
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C.HARDY
Advanced Member
260 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 6:07:19 PM
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| I have some G159s that are at least 8 years old no cracks and I would head across the counbtry tomorrow with them. Tire companies are going to tell you to replace them to cover their butts and try to sell you new tires. |
"Hardybusman" |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2013 : 05:36:43 AM
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Wow...interesting article. Infrequent use is the problem we have with the white fleet. I had one of my mechanics replace tires on a van with 8 year old tires on it, the tires still had 80% of its tread left on it, but the side walls were cracked to where the tires could blow out at any moment.
@ C.HARDY, I have a couple of buses with 7 year old tires that have no cracks and are in good shape, but like you said tire companies are trying to cover their rear ends and I'm trying to cover mine as well. Although I will say that truck tires hold up way better than automobile tires as far as age goes. I'm still trying to get ahold of DOT to ask them what exactly their regulations are, I tried to google it but it just took in circles. Lol... |
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matts4290
Advanced Member
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 4:29:12 PM
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Speaking as a representative of a tire company who maintains a school bus fleet, this is what we do.
We cap drive tires twice.
If casings are older than 8 years old, I throw them away reguardless of times capped. I never have the issue of casings being too old with tread on them. I also try to match older casings and casings capped twice to older buses, so old casings go with the bus when it is retired, and newer casings to newer buses so that we keep our good casings on newer vehicles that are more likely to be sent on long trips. Older buses tend to stay close to home, which also means lower speeds.
As a tire shop, we only pay top dollar for casings that are 5-6 years old, and name brand. China tires, those that require section repairs, or older casings get paid less money. I match the casing to the tread I put on them. Lesser quality casings get cheaper treads. The nicer casings more reliable casings get treads that will carry heavier loads or those that will run down the highway for long periods.
As far a school bus tires, we do not allow any section repairs. I'm not worried so much about school bus tire failures because on the drives, loss of control is not likely---- and because of the application. School buses generally have light loads, and if they are heavy, they lighten fast, they don't run down the highway for extended periods of time so they don't get very hot, and they generally run low speeds.
If I had tires that still had tread on them and were old, I would save them for drives. There is no reason to get cheap on steer tires, ever. As far as retreading, our brand specifies that if a tire has weather checking, they will still cap them if the cracking is less than 2/32nds inch deep. As far as I am aware, there is no restriction on the extent of weather cracking, however by CSA standards, tires that have any body plies exposed are illegal.
Check out this video for some real valuable tire information: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aui6rPuN_U |
We can't all be conventional!
http://www.youtube.com/user/matts4290 |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 05:34:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by matts4290
tires that have any body plies exposed are illegal.
What does this mean exactly? Is this "showing cords"? |
Bryan |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 06:05:56 AM
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@ mats4290, nothing wrong with retreads but we don't run them on our school bus fleet just because.
That was a good video, and still no mention of any laws or regulations on the age of tires. They made a good point about the side wall weathering though, now I know how to gauge it. Thanks for the video. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 07:16:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joeheb
@ mats4290, nothing wrong with retreads but we don't run them on our school bus fleet just because.
That was a good video, and still no mention of any laws or regulations on the age of tires. They made a good point about the side wall weathering though, now I know how to gauge it. Thanks for the video.
Well, we don't need a law to start our own policy. Like the piece I linked to said, truck tires last longer than car tires. So I would say the 10 year mark (without research) would be a good starting point. What does everyone else think?
Also, what does everyone think about asking for a better guide from the tire industry on this? Surly we have a little pull with them. |
Bryan |
Edited by - bwest on 02/21/2013 11:53:10 AM |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 08:01:48 AM
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| I absolutely agree with you Bryan. I wonder what the tire companies expert would say in a court of law when asked by a prosecutor "How long (age limit) do you recommend to your consumers to safely run truck tires on a school bus?" During a lawsuit. Hmmm. |
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vfr700f2
Active Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 1:39:30 PM
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I am at a private school with 5 busses and a motor coach, but used to run a private truck/trailer fleet with many specialized units that did not get a lot of miles, so I had some tires that were 12+ years old. When one of those special units had to go on a trip, one or more blown tires was almost always the result. I started by replacing all the 12+ year old tires. Then I replaced all the 10+ year olds, then the 8+ year olds. Once I had no tires more than 6 years old, my problem stopped.
I realize heavy trucking is a different situation than school busses, but our cargo is more precious. If a tire hits the 6-year mark, I schedule it for replacement soon, regardless of tread depth. However, I don't usually have to throw out much (if any) usable tread at that point, so it's no big deal.
I have also quit using Chinese tires on steers, and the price difference between Chinese and American isn't enough right now to warrant buying Chinese for drives either. The vibration complaints and very strange wear patterns I get from the Chinese stuff aren't worth $75-$100. I'd rather run a good cap on a drive if a quality virgin tire isn't in my budget.
later
kevin
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 7:50:07 PM
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| Thanks for your post Kevin! That's some interesting stuff that you found out there. Kind of anecdotal but good stuff none the less. |
Bryan |
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offroadwolf1
Active Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 2:18:04 PM
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| Lots of opions out there. Our summer temps here in the southwest are brutal. The tire shops here won"t recap anything older than 5 years. Most of my buses running in service everyday won't make the 5 year mark on the same set of tires. Either our hot dry climate or my drivers qualifing for daytona they just don't last as long. I have had a few back up buses last longer. I just pulled a full set of tires off a bus, dated 6 years old and almost new according to tread depth. However the cracking had become so servere I pulled them anyway. Tires are the one area I don't try to save money trying to get more life out of them. Just isn"t worth the risk with a bus full of kids. I do run recaps but they stay on the buses that remain local in town. None of my buses making long sports trips out of town get the recaps. |
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joeheb
Senior Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 06:16:44 AM
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| Our route bus tires don't make it passed 2 years on new Firestones, but our coach (sport buses) buses last about 8 years due to the low mileage per year driven. Even at 8 years the tires hold up really well with virtually no weathering and plenty of good tread. So I ask "how old is too old to run tires on a school bus?" |
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Rlongyear
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 10:37:09 AM
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| we dont re-tread drive tires over 7 years here. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
1828 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 12:13:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joeheb
Our route bus tires don't make it passed 2 years on new Firestones, but our coach (sport buses) buses last about 8 years due to the low mileage per year driven. Even at 8 years the tires hold up really well with virtually no weathering and plenty of good tread. So I ask "how old is too old to run tires on a school bus?"
That seems to be the question on this thread. It doesn't seem that anyone knows for sure. As you can see from the above posts, it depends on where you live, tire composition, and a whole host of other factors. |
Bryan |
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Crown
Active Member
40 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 11:11:06 AM
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| Our buses run in plenty of heat and also do a fair amount of freeway driving. After going through years of trial and error we settled on: no capping after 5 years and no running at all after 8 years. The well known capper was the opposite of helpful on the issue of catastrophic failures we were having. However, once we settled on the time frames and gave them some other stipulations, it all runs smoothly now. |
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baptistbusman1
Senior Member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 3:11:55 PM
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we can't have anything over 5 years old capped, and we only cap a tire one time.
most times when our steering tires reach 4/32's, we will run them on the rear to get more use out of them, then send them to get capped. |
I was formally Baptistbusman. However, I lost my password, and had not updated my email address.
Here is a link to my old posts. http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/search.asp?mode=DoIt&MEMBER_ID=1846 |
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How long do you run your tires as far as age?
