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 IC - "Leave No Child Behind" Reset Issue
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  5:02:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey guys,

I know i've been asking quite a few questions here about my new IC lately. It's a great bus, but it has it's issues (just like any other model).

Any of you ever have any problems with the child check ("Leave no child behind") system on these IC buses?

I have driven quite a few of these IC buses with this system in the past few years, but the other morning my 2013 CE acted a bit different.

I went through my light check, and when I turned off the bus and went to the back to push my reset button the system didn't reset (even though it made the loud chirp when I held it in for 2 seconds). When I looked out front into the morning darkness my headlights were still flashing and the dash was still beeping.

So I ran to the front and ran through my lights again, repeating the process. Still no change. In a panic I ran outside and unhooked the horns just before the dreaded alarm kicked on and woke everyone in the neighborhood up (6:30am)!

Finally after the third try at resetting the system it worked! Since the start of the school year it has done this to me three or four times now. Two days ago the mechanics installed a new red reset button in the back hoping that this will solve the issue. Dealer support had recommended it.

I'm just curious, has anyone else had an issue like mine?

It seems to do this when the bus is a little cold and frosty. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that it works.

slippert
Advanced Member

USA
383 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  04:45:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your's must be programed different if you have to ck the lights to get system to reset? The newest I have is a 2012, but the only things that need to be done to get LNCB system to reset on mine are park brake set, trans in N, and key in accessory position. then wait at least 15sec to push button or lift e-door handle(which ever way the bus has) the last is usually only a problem if there is a bus aide on bus, standing in the rear!
You could be having some issues with your MD and NK solenoids freezing or sticking, causing low or no voltage to system, if it only happens on colder days. I know I have! That will cause some odd issues when it happens,lol.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2319 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  07:35:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slippert

Your's must be programed different if you have to ck the lights to get system to reset? The newest I have is a 2012, but the only things that need to be done to get LNCB system to reset on mine are park brake set, trans in N, and key in accessory position. then wait at least 15sec to push button or lift e-door handle(which ever way the bus has) the last is usually only a problem if there is a bus aide on bus, standing in the rear!
You could be having some issues with your MD and NK solenoids freezing or sticking, causing low or no voltage to system, if it only happens on colder days. I know I have! That will cause some odd issues when it happens,lol.


Why is there a solenoid in this system? I don't know why these companies make things so difficult. My 2010s operate the way you are describing and I have not had any trouble with them. I run Homebound systems on everything besides and IC. If I get the chance this summer I am going to try and disable the systems on these ICs and install the homebound. Here is a link to School Bus Parts site selling the home bound system. http://www.schoolbuspartsco.com/WebPages/safetyproducts/homebound.html

Here is BMRs web page on the system.http://www.bmr-mfg.ca/newsite/Pages/BMR_homepage.html
I really like these and have been running them for probably 8 to 10 years now. We had a driver leave a pre-school age child on the bus for about an hour before we found him and that was enough to trip the trigger to install these. I have been a very satisfied customer. The trouble I have had has been resolved very quickly.
Edit: I forgot to say I use the 4000 series. I hook up the horn switch as well as the dome light circuit. It's funny, in Illinois there is no law that says we have to have these but there is a law that says if you do have them you have to have the dome light circuit hooked up. lol

Bryan

Edited by - bwest on 12/03/2012 07:40:24 AM
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Fastback
Top Member

985 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  08:17:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"and when I turned off the bus"
Can we assume that when you turned off the bus you left the key switch in the accessory position as required?

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
383 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  09:08:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

quote:
Originally posted by slippert

Your's must be programed different if you have to ck the lights to get system to reset? The newest I have is a 2012, but the only things that need to be done to get LNCB system to reset on mine are park brake set, trans in N, and key in accessory position. then wait at least 15sec to push button or lift e-door handle(which ever way the bus has) the last is usually only a problem if there is a bus aide on bus, standing in the rear!
You could be having some issues with your MD and NK solenoids freezing or sticking, causing low or no voltage to system, if it only happens on colder days. I know I have! That will cause some odd issues when it happens,lol.


Why is there a solenoid in this system? I don't know why these companies make things so difficult. My 2010s operate the way you are describing and I have not had any trouble with them. I run Homebound systems on everything besides and IC. If I get the chance this summer I am going to try and disable the systems on these ICs and install the homebound. Here is a link to School Bus Parts site selling the home bound system. http://www.schoolbuspartsco.com/WebPages/safetyproducts/homebound.html

Here is BMRs web page on the system.http://www.bmr-mfg.ca/newsite/Pages/BMR_homepage.html
I really like these and have been running them for probably 8 to 10 years now. We had a driver leave a pre-school age child on the bus for about an hour before we found him and that was enough to trip the trigger to install these. I have been a very satisfied customer. The trouble I have had has been resolved very quickly.
Edit: I forgot to say I use the 4000 series. I hook up the horn switch as well as the dome light circuit. It's funny, in Illinois there is no law that says we have to have these but there is a law that says if you do have them you have to have the dome light circuit hooked up. lol



I was thinking of the main power solenoids in the side panel, not really in the LNCB system, but when they are bad or stuck, causing voltage issues I have had odd problems,with multiplex system in the past. After thinking about it, probably not your issue if this happens at at the end of your route, as usually by the time my buses have warmed up the solenoids will work okay till setting overnight in freezing temps.
Even the latest and greatest rubber coated ones are starting to need replacement here, just seems to be a problem on the IC's for me every so often. always seems to be a lot of moisture in there whether it's intrusion thru the door seal and latch or condensation.
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  12:49:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

"and when I turned off the bus"
Can we assume that when you turned off the bus you left the key switch in the accessory position as required?



Yes, that's correct.

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  12:55:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slippert

Your's must be programed different if you have to ck the lights to get system to reset?



Nope, Mine is set up the standard way. Well, I believe it's standard!...lol!

You have to go through your amber and red lights, then turn the bus to accessory (Making sure the bus isn't in gear & park brake applied), Then wait a few seconds and hit the reset at the back.

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  12:58:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the tips guys! The system seems good so far, but the last few days have been nice and mild.

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"

Edited by - 1983ChevroletWayne on 12/03/2012 12:58:55 PM
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
383 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  7:29:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
oh Now I got ya! yes,we have to activate overhead lights to arm system but don't have to do that step to reset or disarm. just neutral, park brake and key in assecesory, wait few sec and push button/or lift door handle.
the first time you activate your overheads the LNCB system activates, then arms to blow horns when you turn key to off on engine shutdown, so you shouldn't have to do light operation step to reset. unless something is changed since I got my 2012's?
If your reading the sticker you should be able to start at at step 5 or 6 (I will have to look at one tomorrow for sure), but the first 5 are done after first start up and first light operation. Not saying you are doing it wrong but think you might be adding more work to process than nessesary.

Edited by - slippert on 12/03/2012 7:32:41 PM
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  06:31:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was forced to install those crappy CRC2 diode sniffer units in my fleet. I hate them. I like the Child Checkmate systems better. Easy install and effective. BBs factory set-up needs work as well. Junque!

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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FrankP
Senior Member

53 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  2:03:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit FrankP's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just a thought here...call me crazy but...

Why not just WALK YOUR BUS at the end of your shift, and eliminate the need for these systems and the headaches that come with them?

My company does not use them, and we don't have any issues. (Training and quality drivers, maybe?)

Just sayin' :)
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eddo
Senior Member

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  08:45:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
not related to the technical part of this discussion, but this happened in my fair city a couple days ago. :(

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/20271392/preschool-boy-left-on-sunnyside-school-bus

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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  5:15:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FrankP

Just a thought here...call me crazy but...

Why not just WALK YOUR BUS at the end of your shift, and eliminate the need for these systems and the headaches that come with them?

My company does not use them, and we don't have any issues. (Training and quality drivers, maybe?)

Just sayin' :)



I think all buses are spec'd with these systems now anyways. Am I wrong? Ours have been coming to us like this since 2006. It's not really an option not to have them, as far as I know.

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"
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IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  5:27:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FrankP

Just a thought here...call me crazy but...

Why not just WALK YOUR BUS at the end of your shift, and eliminate the need for these systems and the headaches that come with them?

My company does not use them, and we don't have any issues. (Training and quality drivers, maybe?)

Just sayin' :)

Yep! great idea! Wait! Where do you hire quality drivers?

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3335 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2012 :  03:04:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not required equipment and shouldn't need to be. Had a driver do his job well on Monday evening and found a sleeper still on board. Gotta praise em publicly when they do a good job, it encourages the other and makes them consider the consequences of failing to check.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2319 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2012 :  05:51:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well fellas, it's like this. You can say, all day long, that the driver should do their job. And you'd be right. But tell that to the parent who lost a child because they froze to death or to the sibling of a child who cooked in a hot bus. I think most drivers are good people and care but even the best drivers get distracted and this is just to remind them. As most of you know by now I am one who wants less electronic stuff on buses but this one, my friends, is a good thing.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

985 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2012 :  07:28:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree, in this hustle bustle world filled with distractions we have had even responsible parents space off and leave their own child cooking in their parked vehicle. A change in the normal routine or poorly timed distraction can set the stage for tragedy. No one needs the possible life changing heartache.
In as short of supply as bus drivers are who wants to risk having good ones terminated because one day they forgot to check their bus?


Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 12/07/2012 07:30:48 AM
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2012 :  07:55:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The systems work and help to remind the driver to check the bus for students. However I believe some of the systems could be made a bit better.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2319 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2012 :  09:45:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your right Wolf. Maybe they'll be standardized someday. Fastback, we agree on something! Wonders never cease! lol

Bryan
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