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 2004 DT466 EGR Fuel in oil / leaking turbo
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
57 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  9:04:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So this will be a long post so here goes. Bus is a 2005 FE with DT466 EGR and 115,000 miles. Oil and filter change every 12K and we do not do oil analysis (not my idea).

Bus broke down on a run about 6 weeks ago doing about 50 MPH. To make a long story shorter, the IDM took a dump (burnt up transistor) and was towed home. Fast foreward 4 weeks and the new IDM came in (they must have had to make it from scratch and also the DT466EGR and VT365 use the same IDM)and it was installed. Few days later the local dealer came and reprogramed the new IDM/ECM and it started as it always has. (It has always taken longer than the other buses cranking over before it starts but never a code).

Bus was taken on a test drive and came back to the yard blowing smoke (burnt oil) out the exhaust. Pulled CAC hose off of turbo and watched the oil run out of hose and turbo. (Turbo was deemed bad -had 2 others do the same thing in the last year)Turbo was replaced last week and installed per manual / instruction sheet. The bus started as it always has (see above) and ran it to operating temp. Checked to see if andy DTC were send and had DTC 422 (Bad injector #2). Replaced said injector and re sealed HP oil rail and installed new ICP sensor. Bus took a little while to start due to lack of fuel and oil pressure but started up with no problems. Ran engine up to temp and then ran it up to 1500 rpm and a few minuets later engine was smoking. Brought said bus back into the garage and removed CAC hose and watched the oil run out of the hose and the new turbo. (this happened just before I left work on Friday so no other testing done as of yet).

So here is what I know now. Oil looks to be a quart or 2 over full (possible leaking fuel into engine) and possible the oil is dillouted and leaking past turbo seals. I plan on checking fuel pressure when I return on Monday and see if it drops off after shut down (maybe this has been the cause of hard starts). Oil and filter change is also going to be done once possible fuel leak is found.

So not having too much expierence with the internal working of the DT466 EGR engins other than EGR coolers, sensors and many a water pumps I am trying to figure out (in my head) where the fuel is leaking from). There was no signs of fuel leaking at the injectors when I took the valve cover and HP rail off but I know a bad injector "O" ring could be the cause. What is the best way to check "this" motor for leaks in the fuel system after pressure testing? Does the engine have sleeves around the injectors as some models engines do? Any one had a bad fuel pump leak internally? Am I missing something else. I dont think the new Turbo is defective but one may never know).

Told you this would be long. I would like to hear from those who have expierence with 04 dt466 EGR engines. Kind of make it easier to follow..

Thanks
Scott

Edited by - 57fan on 11/26/2012 7:31:23 PM

Bus Tech II
Senior Member

100 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  05:14:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bus Tech II's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Scott, The fuel in the oil more than likely is coming from one or more injector orings or over fueling injectors. A light oil film is acceptable in the CAC system. If there is a lot of oil you should remove the CAC cooler and clean out thouroughly, also check your catalyst muffler and make sure its not full of oil. If it is you might wanna replace the muffler due to it being a catalyst type muffler.
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mrschoolbus1
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  4:33:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit mrschoolbus1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Scott,
The fuel delivery pump can leak fuel beyond the shaft seal and cause fuel in the oil. Add Dye to the fuel at the rock catcher. Run for 10 minutes and pull the fuel pump off. Check with black light at fuel pump shaft for fuel leak. If not there check injector o rings. High intake restriction ( Air Filter) or High Exhaust back pressure can cause Turbo leak. Make sure both are within spec.
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
57 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2012 :  7:29:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well not much help in here. Kind of dissapointing from the IC guys. Any ways here goes

I started by checking the fuel pressure and it is running about 60lbs at idle (not perfect) but it drops quickly to below 40lbs after turning the engine off, the to below 30 lbs in 5 minuets (not good). I put Dye in the fuel filter (per IH) and bleed the fuel system till dye came out the schrader valve. I removed the valve cover and ran the engine for 5 minuets but did not see much if any dye. While it was running I did notice that #5 injector had excessive oil coming out at the HP manifold either by the adapter or the tube "O" rings as compared to the other cylinders. This is a concerne and a possible the cause of the long and hard starts in the past. Also heard a sucking or "whistleing" sound about 5 minuets after engine was shut off. This migh be air re entering the HP oil manifold due to bad "O" rings or adapter and bleeding down the HP oil system. Next I removed the HP oil Manifold and looked at the injectors with the black light and glasses. I had dye coming off of 5 of the 6 injectors (#2 was already replaced). The dye was above the block surface and inbetween the top and bottom halves of the injector. Basically it is coming out of the weep hole. Injectors were removed and there was definetly dye in the weep holes. I removed the low pressure fuel pump and had no signs of fuel leaking into the engine so not thinking fuel entered the oil thru there.

So now I have replaced all the injectors, resealed the manifold and installed a new adapter on HP manifold at #5. Oil and filter have been changed, Fuel system has been primed and bleed to remove air from the fuel gallery. I primed the fuel system till I got 40 lbs of pressure (not getting no more pressure from the primer pump especially on an FE bus). Pressure held at 40 lbs for over 5 minuets and only dropped to 30 lbs after an hour (great improvement). Tuesday morning I will be starting up the engine and see how it goes. Hopefully the oil was dillouted to the point that the Turbo seals could not hold it and the leaking will stop. Time will tell. I will look into removing and cleaning the CAC cooler as well as checking out the CAT on the exhaust side.

What is the procedure for "testing" inspecting the CAT other than seeing if it is melted (over heated)? Also if the CAT was plugged and the turbo / exhaust system should have high exhause back pressure then it should set a code for high EBP. Am I correct? I have no codes for this.

Just found out that another bus came in last week and had 4 qts of oil over the full mark. Going to send in a oil sample this week on that one..

I'll keep you all informed.

Lead, Follow or get out of the way!
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Fastback
Top Member

949 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2012 :  05:31:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure if you are taking this into account when you compare the starting to other buses "(It has always taken longer than the other buses cranking over before it starts but never a code)" but the EGR DT466s do have to spin over more before they start, the colder the engine the more noticeable it is.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
57 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2012 :  7:57:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fastback. I was comparing this bus to the other 22 IC buses built at the same time with the same engine. I got the engine running today and everything seems to be fine at this point except the burning oil. The turbo does not seem to be leaking after a test drive this evening (removed CAC hose and checked). I am thinking the CAC cooler has oil in the bottom of it. As for cleaning it out? we will see. It is a FE bus and we all know what fun it is to get the radiator / CAC out of the bus to steam clean it. The good thing is that the bus did not run very long with a leaking turbo so I dont think there will be too many quarts in it, LOL. I was able to kill all the bugs in town tonight when I droive it. Tomorrow i'll take it on a nice long drive and get the boost pressure and heat up in the CAC system and see if we can get the oil out and stop the burning. Bus has more power now than it did before.

Lead, Follow or get out of the way!
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