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 2010 Blue Bird A3FE3007 Super Short
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  12:27:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am a contractor mechanic out in Afghanistan and a 8 year Army vet, having worked on several military vehicles and now in transgression to Civilian motor vehicles. Has anyone ever come across an issue such as the following: The body is being charged, the lower half of the under body fuse panel is inop. Yet the bus still runs and operates as normal. Furthermore the rear emergency exit red light stays on constantly while the lights are on only. The rear exit buzzer and switches are inop but receiving power. My lead mechanic and I have spent 2 days troubleshooting and trying to figure this out. On the same note we noticed that there could be a major short to ground, due to when you hook up the main ground connectors either the dash will flicker or the lights will flicker depending on which one you touch to the battery. We have gone through countless electrical diagrams and have attempted to find the cause of this. A bit more background history, the Air Force Operators have been jumping the starter with a screwdriver in order to get the vehicle running for some time and never brought it in to get the vehicle checked out. We are just trying to figure out what could be causing this or if anyone has ran into this type of issue before?

Sincerely

Nate Bisel
Mechanic
DynCorp
Afghanistan

bwest
Administrator

United States
2176 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  07:06:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With your experience you have probably already checked this but, check your grounds from battery to frame, frame to starter & frame to body. I just automatically check grounds when I have a weird problem like that. I do not have any experience with the FEs, just on conventional Blue Birds. So beyond that I am going to be at a loss. There will be someone chime in soon enough though. Good luck, & thanks for your service to our country!

Bryan
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2175 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  11:35:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This might help ya Nate. http://service.blue-bird.com/WiringSchematics/

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2176 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  11:49:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pusd

This is probably stupid and i might be reading it wrong, but when a lot of the body components stop working including the buzzers and switches I always check the noise suppression switch by the driver seat. I've caught my self wasting a lot of time once or twice because the driver accidentally hit that switch.



Good point, I've been there too.

Bryan
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  7:54:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the help. @Bwest I will recheck grounds and go from there. @pusd I never thought about the Noise Suppressor. @WolfOr Thanks for the link but thats where I went to get all my electrical diagrams from and went through the majority of those that corresponds with the issues I am having. I will repost to let you know what I find out.
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  10:11:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So a quick update. Went through the grounds all seems normal from the battery to the starter, and starter to the underbody fuse panel, ect. All grounds along the frame were fine as well. I still sometimes get one heck of a shock from just from touching the side of the bus. One of my co-workers thought it could be the Altenator over charging the system so I went through that and it is charging normally and not back feeding into the system. Also checked the Noise Suppressor,(and when pusd wrote that I did one of those doh things)but that wasn't the issue either. I think the ECM could be fried or one of the other computers. Any other ideas?

*EDIT*

Now after rewiring the rear door buzzer and almost getting it to work, Now all the interior lights don't work, and the majority of the interior doesnt work. But the Red Light stays on while the vehicle is running whether the door is closed or open. Im starting to think this bus is posessed, or cursed. Any thoughts? ECM or BCM maybe?

Edited by - NateB on 11/01/2012 03:02:42 AM
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willism
Senior Member

United States
129 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  05:39:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit willism's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Try if your able to call Kent Pasco at central states bus sales there tech guys are the most knowledgeable bus tech guys ive talked to.
800-825-8273
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2175 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  06:41:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aren't those red lights over the exit door supposed to stay on? I have a temp with those on the back and side door inside over the door.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  07:10:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wolf0r

Aren't those red lights over the exit door supposed to stay on? I have a temp with those on the back and side door inside over the door.



I believe they are only supposed to be on when the door switch is engaged (meaning the door becomes unlocked and opened) and only when that happens. But than again I could be wrong. I will have to research that and try and find out more information.
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  07:14:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willism

Try if your able to call Kent Pasco at central states bus sales there tech guys are the most knowledgeable bus tech guys ive talked to.
800-825-8273




I will get my shift lead to give them a call. I think he already has a connection over there or knows some one. We tend to use them for alot of our Bluebird parts. (or used to) Thanks for the help.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2176 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  07:29:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just getting ready to suggest Kent or John at Central States too. Sometimes they monitor this forum. I think I'll just give them a call to see if they have been on lately.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  07:44:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NateB

quote:
Originally posted by Wolf0r

Aren't those red lights over the exit door supposed to stay on? I have a temp with those on the back and side door inside over the door.



I believe they are only supposed to be on when the door switch is engaged (meaning the door becomes unlocked and opened) and only when that happens. But than again I could be wrong. I will have to research that and try and find out more information.



The interior redlights over the emergency doors on our buses are on anytime the clearance/ID lights are on.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2175 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  08:48:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you tried taking jumper cables and hooking from the battery ground post to the body? Getting a charge when touching the bus body sounds like it's using YOU as a ground.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2175 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  08:52:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Just getting ready to suggest Kent or John at Central States too. Sometimes they monitor this forum. I think I'll just give them a call to see if they have been on lately.



I tried to get hold of those guys before. Never called me back. Maybe they were just busy.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4163 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  6:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
The fact that you get shocked by touching the outside of the bus is absolutely bizzare. That suggests a potential between the bus and ground (as in the real ground below you) and I do not know how that would be possible unless something else is hooked to that bus like a battery charger or engine block heater.

I am not getting any great ideas from what you're seeing so far, but I can concur with the others in that the emergency exit lights are supposed to stay on when the clearance lights are on. They are so you can find the exits in the dark.

You mention that they have been starting the bus by shorting the starter...if the bus is running after that then your ECM should be fine. As I recall, the starter circuits in Blue Bird FEs are conventional wiring...no computers along the way. But then I am familiar with '06 models. Is the bus equipped with vandal locks on the emergency doors? These must be unlocked for the bus to start. An interlock prevents you from operating a bus that has locked emergency exits. If they are unlocked, then something could have failed with the wiring. The four 2006s I worked with had many issues with wiring pulled tight and chafing in the rear. If the starter interlock wire is shorted, the starter will not be receiving its signal to operate.

Thanks for your service!

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  8:59:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wolf0r

Have you tried taking jumper cables and hooking from the battery ground post to the body? Getting a charge when touching the bus body sounds like it's using YOU as a ground.



I know its using me or who ever touches it as a ground. It doesnt feel to good either. My shift lead got one hell of a shock just the other day when he was using just a test light on the under body fuse panel. The test light was grounded to the side panel and he touched the test part itself. It was pretty funny watching him jump out from under neath that bus now that I think about it.

Edited by - NateB on 11/01/2012 9:10:56 PM
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NateB
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  9:06:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit NateB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another quick update. I replaced all the fuses inside by the drivers seat. Still no power to the lower fuse panel. I did however get my interior lights working again. It had the resetable fuses in that panel. I guess they were trashed. Thank you all for the input, especially on the red light me and my shift lead were convinced that the light was only to be enganged when the door was opened. After checking with 2 other buses we just got in our yard for maintence they both do the same exact thing. Now just to rewire the buzzer yet again and figure out this under body fuse and relay panel. This bus still isnt as bad as my current project, 03 Thomas Bus, being almost completely rebuilt. Thats another project though. I will repost in an edit if I find anything else out to let you know I've solved the issues. Yet again thanks for the input and the information you are giving me is invaluable.

*EDIT*

Figured out the buzzer issue, turns out I have 2 bad buzzers the one in the front and the one in the rear are both bad. So that solved the buzzer issue. after replacing all fuses and relays, (just for fun) the electrical issues went away. So its out of the shop and out of our hair for now. Until the operators mess it up agian. Thanks to all for the help. You've helped out tremendously.

Edited by - NateB on 11/02/2012 05:20:31 AM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2176 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2012 :  10:36:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still can't figure out why you would be getting shocked by touching the bus. I've never had 12 volts shock me before. Of course I have touched 110 before and never gotten shocked (not that I do that on a regular basis). Dry skin I guess.

Bryan
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IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2012 :  4:15:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"The rear exit buzzer and switches are inop but receiving power."
Are they receiving full battery voltage? I had a case in which the body solenoid was defective and only delivering full voltage intermittently. All kinds of weird things were happening.

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.
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