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 IC CE - High Pressure Oil Line Investigation NHTSA
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RichBusman
Advanced Member

451 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  07:00:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Might want to check your high pressure oil lines...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/22/government-investigating-stalling-school-buses/

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM419465/INOA-PE12011-5663.PDF

Edited by - RichBusman on 04/24/2012 07:03:20 AM

willism
Senior Member

United States
135 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  07:43:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit willism's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Those lines blowing arnt that uncommon we had one blow on the day of inspection was a freeking mess. The upgraded line is alot stouter than the original.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  09:38:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have yet to have one of the 2008's blow a line, but have had the same experience with my 05 to 07 buses blowing that high pressure line. And it does make a big mess. We have 12 buses in between 05 and 07, after the second bus blew one, the other ten got new updated lines installed on them just because.

There really isn't much to ck on them. The ones I have had fail didn't show any signs of leakage until there was a catastrophic failure.

Edited by - slippert on 04/24/2012 09:46:52 AM
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JRob
Senior Member

180 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  10:33:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Did they do any sort of campaign to go to the better version?

Would seem to me the question the feds will have is: If they knew there was an issue, why didn't they (or did they) do a service campaign? and since there are varying degrees of service campaigns if it involved potential engine fires how proactive was the campaign conducted (if done)?
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Bassman
Top Member

USA
508 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  11:13:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What engine is involved in this campaign?
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JRob
Senior Member

180 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  11:25:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One of the reports states DT466 but the other doesn't state explicitly nor does it limit it to the DT.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  12:13:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When mine did it, at least a couple of years ago probably closer to 3, they were the 466's, as far as a I know there was no campaign at that time. when the first one blew I ordered new one and it came with a different part # and looking more stout and also with replacement fittings. when I quizzed the dealer they said it was just the latest update from IH, shortly after that time one of the locals here told me he had 3 of 8, 2008 buses w/466's blow the HP oil lines within 2 weeks of each other so he ordered enough new ones to replace the rest. His were also the 04 emission engines.

Sounds like another case of they new was a problem then, just not enough people #itchin to cause a recall or campaign at that time.

Edited by - slippert on 04/24/2012 12:18:02 PM
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JRob
Senior Member

180 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  12:30:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't know that I'd agree completely with that assessment. When something rises to the level of recall, it is safety related. I feel pretty confident that in most instances true safety related issues are addressed properly by all manufacturers. However, there is sometimes a fine line about what is a "safety" issue. Everything could be boiled down to safety taken to one extreme or another on a school bus. So one person's threshold may not be the same for another. There will always be debate there.

Outside of recalls, I think there is a hesitation to admit to a problem. Sometimes people don't put 2 and 2 together and other times it's most certainly related to cost. People just hate to admit there is a problem and that fixing it will cost money.

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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  1:00:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only reason I said what I did, is that I have been told that by dealers in the past to the effect that IH, Bluebird , Kenworth or what ever Manufacture it is knows they have a problem with something, but they haven't had enough complaints yet to make it a AFC,or recall.

I agree with what you say above for the most part bus manufactures/most manufactures do a reasonably good job of correcting safety issues, yes people/corp's hate to admit a problem when it will cost dollars to fix, but if there is enough of a problem they will admit/recall/AFC it themselves before the Fed's get involved and tell them they have to.


Edited by - slippert on 04/24/2012 1:09:49 PM
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JRob
Senior Member

180 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  1:13:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Please don't take offense. None was intended.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  2:34:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
None taken, just trying to be clear on my part
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mastertech
Advanced Member

222 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2012 :  2:35:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just had one blow last week. IH is lucky it only blasts the hot oil on the nonturbo side of the engine. With the volume and pressure the bus would be a fireball in seconds were it to hit the hot turbo. The recall on the old t444e hoses seemed to be much more plastic shielding to prevent direct spray on the hot parts.
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districtU46
Active Member

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2012 :  10:08:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We've had a 2 blow out so far this year but not too awful bad to cause any real danger... i think its the 1/4 mile of an oil streak on the pavement that we gotta clean up is just nuts... o not to forget to pressure wash the entire engine, hood, and half the underside of the bus! I agree with mastertech that IH got incredibly lucky that its not splashing on anything hot or any open ignition source, that could have been catastrophic!
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mastertech
Advanced Member

222 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2012 :  07:02:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes it is an amazing amount of oil that gets dumped on the road. You know most drivers will try a long crank restart after it comes to a stop which causes the pond of oil to clean up when you get there.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2012 :  5:32:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I,m curious are the buses you guys are blowing lines on the 04 emission engines like the ones I and one of the locals had do it 1-3 years ago or are your engines 2007 emission as the lines on my 08's/w 2007 emission engines looked stouter from factory and are a different part# than the lines we had problems with here, so basically it's been the 2004 emission engines that I have seen problems with.

I really didn't see that info on the NHTSA report that the original poster put the link in for, all I got was that they were 2008 buses. The local that I talked about had 2008 buses, but they were built with 2004 emission engines.

I was trying to figure out how far back this might go or if the ones we have had issues with were prior to the ones with problems, and if I needed to think about changing the lines on my 07 emis 2008 buses?

Edited by - slippert on 05/05/2012 5:40:53 PM
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mastertech
Advanced Member

222 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  07:45:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
2007 466
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  6:16:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  07:50:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Recall # G-12523
Hadn't seen much on this subject on here lately, wondered if anybody else had gotten recall letters and there experience.
I received a recall letter on this last yr late November. I have 17 buses that fall in the date range but only 5 of them are in recall. 1 2006, and the other 4 were 2008's. Dealer says it goes by eng ser #. funny part is, the one 2006 in recall has the same line I have had blow out on some others, yet they are not included and engine serial #'s are all similar and close in sequence being 04 emission engines.
The other 4 I got notices on are 2007 emission engines and as I said months ago in this thread have a different more stout looking line on them. and so far none of them has ever ruptured or blown they are all pushing 150,000 miles.
Just doesn't make sense to me how 1 out of 13 2004 emission engines is recalled and all of the 07 emission engines I have are, with different oil lines? Any of you guys had the same experience?

Edited by - slippert on 02/04/2013 07:51:52 AM
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Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
665 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  09:29:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have 45 of these recalls on both EGR and MFDT's. They seemed to cover all my pre and post '07 engines. In my case all the green postcards came together in one print-off as well. The good thing is I've not lost a hose on anything.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  11:17:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My dealer told me he was going to go a different direction with IH, I assume contact someone different? anyway the way I see it if one 04 emission eng is recalled for hose and all 07 emission engs I have in my fleet are under same recall.
The buses/engines that were built in-between those should be also under same recall, all engine ser#'s are sequenced after the one 04 and before the 07's, lmao, but I probably didn't go to school as long as the guys in that dept at IH> So my math is probably off??
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Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
665 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  12:04:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had a similar experience with AFC G-12948 where I took delivery of 12 buses identically equipped within a 3 week period all with pre '10 emission MF7 engines; 10 of them were BB vin numbers, and 2 had CB vins. The 2 buses with CB vins missed the AFC cutoff date, and when I brought this up, everyones face got all scrunched-up. Same order, same spec, same delivered buses with identical ECM calibrations. So this stuff does happen, and trying to resolve it can add to the gray hair...I was just trying to keep the DOC from face plugging.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  12:34:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gotcha on the adding to the gray!! will see if I heard anything different from dealer in a couple of days.
Maybe it is certain batch #'s on the lines, they are going by and some of mine missed those? but seeing how I have replaced a few of the non recall ones myself. I would say if it turns out these are not recalled they might have missed a few that should have been.IMO
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