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JC_Theriault
Senior Member
114 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2010 : 3:27:13 PM
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I disgree for one reason WallyG, FS was paid to do that (efficiency) study by the board who would benefit from the information provided. Had FS simply used the FOIA or the Q&A session then I'd be fine with it but they would have been given open door access to figures that are usually locked away in a contractor's office.
If the board told the contractors to cooperate with that study then I doubt they (current operators) felt there was any threat of FS using that same information to bid against them. If any of them knew the board was basically preparing the scene for FS to come in and take over, with the board's consent, then I'm sure the FS study reps would have been kicked off the contractors' properties in short order. |
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WallyG
Advanced Member
United States
255 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 3:50:36 PM
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| This isn't pentagon stuff, we are talking about route #s and procedures to run them. That's about all we do, take kids to and from school. Not much there to learn that anyone with 1/2 a brain couldn't figure out. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 4:47:27 PM
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Well, it seems that unusual bid increases can show up after a contractor dominates an area. And also seems to go hand-in-hand with desperation, trying to get enough drivers to drive their buses.
Major accounts in Florida, DC and other large metropolitan areas seem under constant attack over questionable driver hiring practices, parents infuriated at the poor service - often complaining not knowing when the bus is going to show (would certainly upset parents in our area), and significant difficulty predicting future increases in service costs.
About a decade ago Kent State University Professor Mark Cassell did a five-year study in Ohio. He relied on public documents filed by 611 school districts in the state. His report said, "The median contracting district paid between 24 percent and 50 percent more per pupil over the course of the five-year analysis."
According to Cassell the differences in per-mile cost were even greater. The study noted that districts using private companies paid between 51 percent and 63 percent more to bus kids during the five years of analysis.
It would appear Cassell had no more access than some say FS did in Detroit, odd the different results Cassell came up with, although Cassell's study was done a long time ago in another state. Maybe that Cassell fellow is a crack pot, maybe that’s the reason for the difference, ya think?
Back then contractors and associations came out of the woodwork attacking the study and anyone else that made these sorts of claims concerning contracting. They claimed their services were actually cheaper.
But according to the article in Columbus Alive at that time by Bob Fitrakis, "Politicians and a new breed of pro-business school superintendents who favor privatizing everything from vending machines to athletic attire realized that the public uncritically accepts the rhetoric that privately contracted transportation is cheaper. In the vast majority of cases, you do get much more cheaply paid bus drivers and transportation personnel, but the cost per pupil in 1998 was $100 more in a privatized district."
In our district we have repeatedly shown contractor claims of better and cheaper services a fallacy. We've had a few superintendents bent on privatizing that the parents eventually booted out. Perhaps too many parents in our community have an elephant's memory, and also know how to add and subtract.
A school owned service does cost less when properly managed. That's the thing. Plenty of public outfits are wasting enough resources so that privatizing can actually save some districts money. But I would think the best option would be to replace management and the administration rather than contract out. Worked for us.
Things have probably changed in some areas since the study, but I would doubt that the need to recover from low-balling has changed after a Walmart-World styled contractor has crushed the competition and monopolizes an area.
Just to mention: When Walmart came to our town several businesses panicked, some sold their business. Those that remained found strategies to keep customers coming to their stores. But now the government poses a greater threat to small business then Walmart ever did.
Suppose the same for some schools. Except that relevant districts may be forced to restart their own fleets in the event FS overwhelms itself like Laidlaw did. Was that speculation to actually happen not convinced FS could make the deal Laidlaw did with them.(jk)
Do your managers know about new legal threat of workplace bullying?
June 11, 2010 by Tim Gould
Click Here for full story
NEW FOR 2010 SCHOOL YEAR!
Stopping bullying on the school buses - Fast Track slide presentation to help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14) |
Edited by - JK on 07/15/2010 12:30:43 AM |
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JC_Theriault
Senior Member
114 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 5:29:25 PM
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WallyG - somewhere in the stuff I read from the school board it was clearly stated that FS was given full access to the facilities of the contractors to conduct the paid study requested by the school board, I'm not talking about the RFP or bidding on the actual conveyance contract.
If thats the case then how on earth could the other bus companies be competitive next bid seeing how they probably weren't sharing those same financial and operational details with each other - but were forced to disclose it to FS researchers who came on site to look into the information the board wanted to know. A company hired to do a research study for a client on a particular service should no be allowed to bid on providing those same services when it comes up for bid almost immediately after, and as a result of, the study they performed.
But I'm willing to bet that the contractors were told they had to let FS onto their property or face sanctions when it came up for bid again. |
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WallyG
Advanced Member
United States
255 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 3:02:25 PM
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| As much as I hate FS and their arrogance these was nothing funny going on with this bid frankly I have no idea why anyone would want anything to do with DPS, they are a bunch of broke amateurs - no money - no motivation - no common sense. Bad combination for a contractor to deal with. |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 5:58:21 PM
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JK hit the nail on the head.A school owned service does cost less when properly managed.
I couldn't agree any more on that post. If the service it does exactly the same the school district ultimately does it less since they aren't striving for profit. Contractors are out there for profit. JK couldn't possibly be any more right. If you have a strong group of leaders you can do it much less and still have a positive highly motivated environment. Right?
There's a few ways to look at this.
FS had access to see what the other contractors were charging. They had somewhat of an idea what their bid would be. They knew to stay low and low ball. In turn, take advantage of this opportunity to just get their foot int he door. Perhaps not making much in profit. once they own the fleet what will Detroit do in 5 years? Lease a new fleet? Finance a new fleet? Nah, just be easier to contract. Then guess what happens to their rates now that they lost possession of their fleet? Again, this is just one way to look at it.
Detroit had a great fleet. Was it maintained? To some it was to others it wasn't- to their standards of opinion. Anyone can come in and turn it around in a matter of months.
I think many would want the contract. With the bond money coming in, grant money, and others funds being discovered I think any contractor sees the city schools as a target opportunity. |
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Former School Bus M8
Senior Member
143 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 6:20:24 PM
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| Our Supt. of Schools for the district I work for o/o their own fleet and says the district saves $200,000-$250,000 by running their own fleet. We have 26 big buses and 15 mini buses. The district leases the buses and turns them in every 3 years. Yup the oldest our buses ever get is 3 years old. And trust me when I say the grass is much greener on this side for all involved. |
School Bus M8 |
Edited by - Former School Bus M8 on 07/15/2010 6:22:15 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 9:26:41 PM
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First Student Inc. is looking for 100 bus drivers to meet their DPS contract.
Click Here for full story
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library - Post Check, Child Left Behind, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire, Danger Zones and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more.
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lostitall
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 07:00:08 AM
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| I am in the process of being hired by FS and I can tell you that the buses I have seen and drove are crap. FS has its hands full with this fleet. FS made a big mistake by hiring DPS drivers. They are the reason the buses are so jacked up. The bus I recently drove had not been pre triped in months but had mileage way beyond what the DVIR stated. |
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WallyG
Advanced Member
United States
255 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 3:36:56 PM
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Lost you ain't seen nothin' yet.
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 3:44:36 PM
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What happened to DPS? Five years ago they had an excellent fleet according to articles in SBF. (jk)
NEW FOR 2010 SCHOOL YEAR!
Stopping bullying on the school buses - Fast Track slide presentation to help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14)
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WallyG
Advanced Member
United States
255 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 05:24:27 AM
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| Ran out of money - didn't PM buses, oil (and other fluids ran out) has not been changed for over 2 years, drivers quit doing pretrips since they couldn't fix the buses anyway. The situation was a result of mis-management and neglect. These buses are doomed, because of that. Time bombs of maintenance failure. It is nothing short of disgusting. Couple that with FS arrogance the morons running things from Naperville it is a untennable situation. I feel for the good folks working there. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 06:45:10 AM
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It would seem again that most any question about anything to do with pupil transportation can be answered by simply following the money, or the lack of it. Our fleet's buses are top notch, everything works, any issue no matter how minor is repaired, before the next run in many cases. Even a cut seat is usually repaired before the next run. To attempt to coerce the mechanics or the drivers to ignore unsafe equipment just doesn't happen here. Our mechanics say on occasion that their toolbox and their skills is their employer, can work here for the benefits or somewhere else for more money. Just can not figure how an entire fleet would fall into that level of decay without some sort of escalating protest. At some facilities it seems obvious that children, drivers', and the public's safety can not possibly be the top priority. Neither is their work ethics. I'm not talking just about management even though would hold management mostly responsible for running such a slipshod operation if true, and the state for not intervening before it got so bad. A homeless drunk off the street paid a case of cheap wine a day could not do any worse for that community. DPS is the district that held managers also accountable for a sleeping child left on the bus. No longer convinced that was an effective answer, nor as advertised. (jk)
"Better than big business is clean business. To an honest man the most satisfactory reflection after he has amassed his dollars is not that they are many but that they are all clean." ~ Dr. Frank Crane (1861-1928), Presbyterian minister, speaker, and columnist.
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library - Post Check, Child Left Behind, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire, Danger Zones and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. |
Edited by - JK on 07/22/2010 5:20:47 PM |
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1st Turned 2nd rate since the Laidlaw take over
