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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
 Posted - 04/14/2009 : 3:57:56 PM
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| We have a problem with a '99 Bluebird TCRE with a Cummins 6C (air throttle, mechanical injection) and Allison MD3060 transmission. Allison shift keypad does not light up or function at all with key on. Bus will not start, have traced starter circuit to find that neutral safety relay is not getting triggered by transmission. If we ground the starter relay, or jumper the neutral safety relay, bus will start and THEN keypad powers up. Power and ground sources to Allison ECU are good; battery power and electronic power have continuity between ECU and keypad. Are there any diagnostic trouble trees you all have that can help us isolate problem? Any bright ideas? |
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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 1:33:40 PM
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| Update: Determined we are getting no ignition signal to the Allison ECU. Trying to chase circuit #11146A through the harness. Bluebird wiring diagrams are mostly useless for this bus, I think because it doesn't have an ISC engine. |
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional." |
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jperkins
Active Member
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 2:12:57 PM
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| partsman if your bus has a vim module check inside the module for a blown fuse on the ignition circut most vim's are a small black box |
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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 2:27:29 PM
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No VIM - searched for a few hours trying to find one a week ago! Has two 10A fuse holders above the starter relay on the RH frame rail. We've got continuity from the Allison ECU ignition sense to that point, so now we just have to crack open looms  until we find the break. |
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional." |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 7:37:27 PM
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| That circuit may be an Allison circuit not a blue bird. Check the Allison schematic. |
Brad A. Barker |
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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 12:19:22 PM
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| Forgot to post the fix - broken diode to the back of the alternator caused this. |
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional." |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 3:13:16 PM
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| Where is the diode? Which circuit on alternator. Would this cause a transmission to not shift into gear from neutral? |
Brad A. Barker |
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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:02:11 AM
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| It's the alternator exciter diode. Breaks off at diode. Bluebird p/n is 00002246. |
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional." |
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L.J.D
Senior Member
United States
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 12:01:24 PM
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| I had a similar problem with a Thomas bus. The transmission harnes was rubbing on the case. it wore through and after enough rubbin the wire broke. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 12:17:45 PM
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| Your talking about the diodes inside the alternator aren't you? |
Bryan |
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flyboy
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 09:44:30 AM
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| We had some problems with our TCRE buses not starting and found a couple different issues. Does you bus have an emergency exit interlock? If it does check the interlock solenoid in the side electical panel it supplies ground to the starter relay. Our buses had a fuse panel in the dash that would blow a 10 amp fuse that fed power to the starter relay. Also we had some problems with the electrical connections in the engine compartment in particular the relays mounted on the frame and connections in the electrical box above the engine.Good luck. |
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partsman_ba
Administrator
United States
377 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 09:09:30 AM
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| This is an external diode in the exciter wire circuit. |
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional." |
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KEVINJ
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 08:35:10 AM
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| I HAVE A ISSUE WITH A 2000 BLUEBIRD. WE JUST INSTALLED A NEW 5.9L ENGINE IN THIS UNIT. WHILE CRANKING ENGINE OVER IT SEEMS NORMAL, BUT ONCE IT KICK OVER, WE ARE GETTING A GRINDING NOISE FROM THE STARTER AREA. STARTER IS WORKING PROPERLY,ENGAUGES, AND DISENGAGES. WE HAVE CKED THE FLEX PLATE THAT SEEMS OK, WE CKED THE TORQUE CONVERTOR ITS OK. WHAT CAN OUR PROBLEM BE. |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 07:41:34 AM
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| You're sure the starter is disengaging and not remaining powered up after the engine starts? Any metal shavings in the bell housing? Stick a magnet inside and check. Torque converter not into front of trans all the way may be putting excess pressure on flexplate. Coverter hub may be pushing on pump driver gear rather than lined up with flats and installed all the way. Does the engine roll over by hand with a wrench freely? |
Brad A. Barker |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 11:26:55 AM
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| Old thread with a similar problem here. My keypad is dead and the engine will not crank without grounding the relay. I haven't found any diodes in the alternator harness, and this doesn't use an exciter. This is a 99 QBRE with 8.3 cummins and the 3060 trans. The diagrams I have do not match numbers on the wire harness I am working with. I think because I have ISB sheets but none for ISC. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 2:32:05 PM
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| Fixed this one. I found a broke pink/black wire that feeds the TCM. The TCM was mounted in a steel box bolted together behind the left rear wheel, between the trans cooler and radiator. The wire had severed through on a piece of steel on the outrigger. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 2:36:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by partsman_ba
Update: Determined we are getting no ignition signal to the Allison ECU. Trying to chase circuit #11146A through the harness. Bluebird wiring diagrams are mostly useless for this bus, I think because it doesn't have an ISC engine.
I had better luck using the 1999 All American binder I had. The qbre diagrams I had were not right at all. 11146 was my problem wire as well. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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vstabus
New Member
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2012 : 11:04:49 AM
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I am having the same problem with my 1999 TC2000RE, with Allison MD3060 Trans and Cummins C8.3 12 valve mechanical engine. It won't crank and the Trans shifter panel is dead. I have checked the diode harness in the back of the Alternator and the diode is open. I Have ordered a new diode harness. All fuses are good except with the two
fuses on the R/H rear frame rail by above the starter. There is no
power to the fuse with the Pink wire with Back tracing. I have a wiring diagram for the front of this bus but do not have a rear diagram for teh Cummins 12 valve with the Allison MD3060.
Can anyone chime in on thier experience with circuit 11146A??
I cannot find it with the information I have. Thank you one and all. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2012 : 12:23:57 PM
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| That circuit is fused.it feeds the relays inside the box that holds the TCM behind the left rear wheel bolted to the outrigger. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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vstabus
New Member
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2012 : 12:55:04 PM
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| WolfDr where was your broken pink wire located? Thanks for your reply |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2012 : 07:22:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vstabus
WolfDr where was your broken pink wire located? Thanks for your reply
Mine was broke behind the engine where it makes the turn down towards the left. See some of the above posts I made for more specifics. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Bluebird won't start
