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wright11
Senior Member
Canada
159 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2009 : 7:48:10 PM
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hi guys, were thinking about specing some C2's, and i need the pro's and con's of this unit. any info would be appreciated
thanks
rick
wright11@shaw.ca |
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Bassman
Top Member
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 03:43:44 AM
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| I understand that the earlier ones had a great deal of electrical snafus/leaks etc. but we took delivery of 6 special needs C-2's with MBE906 engines in Sept of 08 and as a group, these units have been better than any buses received in the last 10 - 15 years or so. My dealer (American Bus) has provided us with the technical info/warranty support we need from time to time which really makes the little issues we encounter bearable. You won't be able to get the MBE906 anymore though. (I really would love to be able to time warp back and get more 1991 IH 3800 w/Thomas bodies, DTA360 engines w/no electronics or emissions!). Good luck |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 05:09:35 AM
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One of the pros is that they will make you appreciate your IC buses more  |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 05:34:47 AM
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| Orig' you really need to stop drinking that IC Koolaid!! |
Bryan |
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flyboy
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 07:35:48 AM
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| Took delivery on two C-2s in November 2008.Both with MBE900 engines. One went back to dealer after only 2000 miles came back and had to go back to dealer after one day. It's still there and I don't want it back until it's right. The other one seems to be working okay but one out of two is a 50% failure rate. These are engine related problems. |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 07:44:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
Orig' you really need to stop drinking that IC Koolaid!!
The IC koolaid tastes great! 
Do you have some C2 experiance  |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 2:41:35 PM
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| Orig', I don't have any C2 experience but I just think it's funny how one person can have nothing but trouble with a particular brand and another just loves it. Weird!! I can't complain about the Koolaid though because I pretty well drink the BB Koolaid myself. Wouldn't trade my BBs for anything but another BB if I have my say that is. |
Bryan |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 3:22:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
Orig', I don't have any C2 experience but I just think it's funny how one person can have nothing but trouble with a particular brand and another just loves it. Weird!! I can't complain about the Koolaid though because I pretty well drink the BB Koolaid myself. Wouldn't trade my BBs for anything but another BB if I have my say that is.
Well I have a lot of input on what we buy and do avoid being a first year test pilot for the innovations. I never bought a CE or a VT365 till 2008, or a C2 before 2006 and I have not bought any hydraulic brake buses since 2001 save for one E450 type A bus.
No brand bus is perfect and customer support is very important. International hasn't walked away from any issue I have had.
I too use to drink a bit of the BB koolaid, we have 5 Bluebird bodies on International chassis and we have gotten good service out of them, but the time came when we had to choose between sticking with BB bodies or the International chassis. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
Edited by - origcharger on 04/08/2009 6:10:07 PM |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 4:38:30 PM
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| The C2 has come a long way in the past two years. Most of the bad comments stem from the initial product, which was not a good situation. Go for the Cummins and you will not have any regrets. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 6:56:00 PM
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| Please what ever you do don't go for the Thomas C2 especially if your planning on keeping it around for along time they have rust issues, my local school corp bought three of them and with in 2 years the rear emergency exit door started to rust on the bottom and the whole door had to be replaced. Also the windshields on all 3 had to be replaced because they were warped and the windshield wiper left a huge spot unwiped. The warning lights are also junk if you break a lense its a big job to replace because their glued in. their is no exterior electrical access on the c2 so all the relays and solonodis are difficult to access. They even had to have the whole door opener control replaced because it was too weak to keep the doors shut and they would bang open and shut going down the road. Their Thomas's answer for a full size conventional cut away or a replacement for the thomas Vista. The bus is built on the same principals as cutaway chassis and the C2 has the blind spots and automotive dash to prove it. The C2s are just too unreliable and troublesome for me to purchase one. The bad things you have heard about IC and the VT365 wont be an issue for you if you spec a Maxforce DT466 with air brakes, air door, air ride suspension, and LED lights. IC buses give you the best value for your dollar and they are much easier to service and do repairs on your drivers will also be greatful not having to bob around trying to see around those ridiculously large window posts. Sure the IC bus body isn't quite as nice as Blue Bird but the Blue Bird body now uses cheap windows so their not what they used to be. |
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acap03
Senior Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 8:02:27 PM
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I agree with Rich...many of these issues listed seem to stem from 1st gen C2's. I personally have only been out of my bus for 4 days (due to a career change) and would give anything to have my C2 again. I am driving a 2009 IC CE with a MFDT while my "new" route bus (01 BB/freight)is getting serviced so it can be put back on the road...and I am impressed..as it is a MUCH better product than the VT-365's..but Im still a C2 man. My county has received 94 C2's in the last 3 years (state bid) and we have overall had a great experience. Any issues have been resolved, which I cant say the same about our handful of IC's.
Blind spots..I didnt have any abnormal issues...especially with the extended mirror mount which I believe is standard now.
Go for LED lighting all the way around..you cant beat it. (we use Weldon)
New rear light set ups make for easy serviceability.
Cummins is SUPER quiet..and an awesome performer thus far.
Upgrade to that large National driver's seat.
AIR options. (brakes, ride, door)
Ok Im done. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 10:26:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by acap03
I agree with Rich...many of these issues listed seem to stem from 1st gen C2's. I personally have only been out of my bus for 4 days (due to a career change) and would give anything to have my C2 again. I am driving a 2009 IC CE with a MFDT while my "new" route bus (01 BB/freight)is getting serviced so it can be put back on the road...and I am impressed..as it is a MUCH better product than the VT-365's..but Im still a C2 man. My county has received 94 C2's in the last 3 years (state bid) and we have overall had a great experience. Any issues have been resolved, which I cant say the same about our handful of IC's.
Blind spots..I didnt have any abnormal issues...especially with the extended mirror mount which I believe is standard now.
Go for LED lighting all the way around..you cant beat it. (we use Weldon)
New rear light set ups make for easy serviceability.
Cummins is SUPER quiet..and an awesome performer thus far.
Upgrade to that large National driver's seat.
AIR options. (brakes, ride, door)
Ok Im done.
What don't you like about the IC with the Maxforce DT your driving right now, I can't seen to get enough of them. When they send me on a field trip with a Corporation bus the disbatcher only gives me the trips that a non C2 is available for. That IC bus with the Maxforce your driving right now isn't a transit style is it because its not a fair comparison to a C2 you need to drive an IC CE300 with all air options and LEDs to get the full IC effect. |
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acap03
Senior Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 1:46:11 PM
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| ^I am in a IC CE300..and it is nice, and I said I was impressed...but Im still a C2 man. I now drive for DoD schools, and the bus is spec'd out (Federal unit)Full LED, air everything..all the way up to 3 A/C units. Pictures will be on SBC in the coming days. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 6:57:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acap03
^I am in a IC CE300..and it is nice, and I said I was impressed...but Im still a C2 man. I now drive for DoD schools, and the bus is spec'd out (Federal unit)Full LED, air everything..all the way up to 3 A/C units. Pictures will be on SBC in the coming days.
Thanks for the info I won't hold it against you if your a C2 fan I think its great that we have a variety of buses and people that like them. If everyone liked the IC CE300 as much as I do thats all you would see on the road and they would loose their glory. I look forward to the day that Blue-Bird reintroduces the Ford, GMC, Chevy, Freightliner, and International chassis along with the day they cancel the 2007 and 2010 diesel emissions standards but that probably won't happen until the economy gets better and we get rid of all the environmental extremeists. I also look forward to seeing the photos of your bus on SBC. |
Edited by - mrwaibel on 04/09/2009 7:01:32 PM |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 05:44:23 AM
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| WOW Someone who thinks like I do!! Thank you Mr Waibel... |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 06:33:14 AM
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| mrwaibel, you live in the same dream land that I do. Dreams are not a bad thing to have. The bad thing is we still have to live in this land too. |
Bryan |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 5:17:40 PM
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The real problem is the environmental wackos live in a dream world too. As I said on general interest, they want rainbows and flowers to come out the exhaust pipe while the rosey cheeked youngsters smile all the way to the solar panel school.
Personaly I don't see why they dont just have ride unicorns.
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 7:11:54 PM
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Wait a minute, I thought the exhaust coming out the tailpipe was cleaner than the air going in the intake in many parts of the country on these 07 emission engines? They should be paying us to never shut them off as a community air cleaning service. Maybe just circle around hospitals, schools and nursing homes when we aren't out cleaning the air in the residential areas  Idle reduction policies replaced by idle promotion policies. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
Edited by - origcharger on 04/14/2009 7:13:18 PM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 7:28:00 PM
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You guys are funny!  I like your idea orig' |
Bryan |
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acap03
Senior Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 12:28:29 PM
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| You guys are TOO funny. I just printed this to take to work..my boss will get a kick out it! |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 04:04:30 AM
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| The only nice think I have to say about a c2 is the battery tray, but even that we are seeing failures in the rollers, exhaust hangers, battry box doors falling off, cross view mirrors not hold up, engines burning oil, complete engine failures, more electrical problems than you can count. Buses not going into gear. I will give you a good deal on ours. Give me a CE or RE any day. |
gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
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michael
Senior Member
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 09:21:22 AM
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| Bill, you clearly do not have a 08,09, or 010 model. The newer models have been terrific. Obviously, you are an IC man, and fair enough, but I have heard from operators of late, that the newer C2s are by far the best vehicles in their fleets - impressive statements regarding a vehicle that had it's fair share of problems 4 to 5 years ago. At least give the newer units another look. Michael |
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bcressey
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 12:59:42 PM
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| Guys, I am run a Thomas dealership so you know whose Kool Aid I drink. In all honesty, the new C2s are very good. The first year or two were lacking. It is a totally different bus. |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 1:00:12 PM
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Michael, we have '07s and '08's. We tried to get out of the 08's because of how bad the '07's were but were to late. I have no stock in IH or Thomas. I am here to tell you just on OIL comsuption after they had to be over hauled at less than 10k, exhaust hangers, fan cluches, AMU's, door parts falling off, list goes on, and you say they are better now? How bad were they before? If they are the best I hate to see what shape the rest of your fleet is in :) J/K
The fact that thomas tech support line is not a toll free call speaks of how much they care about the product.
I don;t hate C-2's in fact they will keep me employed for a long time to come. We have not made this big of a mistake since '93 whan we got Ford/thomas buses. |
gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
Edited by - skydiverbill on 04/20/2009 1:02:04 PM |
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michael
Senior Member
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 2:49:11 PM
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| Bill, I didn't mean to infer that you were employed by or owned stock in IC, only that it was your preference. I have no experience with C2s with MB engines, which is what I would guess you are speaking of. Newer C2s with Cummins engines have been excellent. Michael |
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baptistbusman
Advanced Member
USA
301 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:31:34 PM
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All three of our 2009 C2's have been overhauled. Door problems, including the door actually almost falling off, then the linkage above the door ripped the housing in half, that happened on 2 of them. We have replaced the step tread on two of them, and the tread at the top of the steps comes unglued. The heated mirrors have wires inside them that break off, and the replacements that Thomas sent out have screws that continually back out leaving the mirror dangling around.
On our three 08's, we had to have all of their door motors replaced with a new kit. We are already experiencing broken seat frames. The cheap speakers that are put in the buses blow out. Of course the biggest pain so far has been the turbo pipe leaking. The idiot that designed the 2 piece turbo pipe should be hung.
In General, the new lights are very stupid too. What is it, like $12 bucks for a tail light? Why would they design it where you cant just replace the light bulb?
If it were me, would I buy them? Id certainly do more research on other bus makers before handing out $75,000 per unit. |
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:45:12 PM
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| Easy on those engineers baptistbusman. They are just trying to do their job. I would say that they all have those stupid things going on with them. Some just have less stupid stuff going on. I have a Vision that has the clearance light on the hood (made into the corner) that has corroded so much that I can't get the bulb out. I thought no problem I'll just call and order one. What a shock when I got the bill. $90 for a running light!!! Wow, I am going to send them back and do something different. I can not spend that kind of money with the cuts that are happening around me. I have more respect for my fellow employee than that. I don't know how I am going to fix it but I will dream up somthing. |
Bryan |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 05:54:45 AM
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"In General, the new lights are very stupid too. What is it, like $12 bucks for a tail light? Why would they design it where you cant just replace the light bulb?"
Thats a dream come true setup in comparison to the earlier ones like ours with the bonded in tail lamp assemblies.
Sealed lamp assemblies are very welcome here, a big improvement over dirt and moisture filled lamps, shrunken gaskets, rusted lens screws and lamp sockets IMO. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 07:14:17 AM
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Yea, you can get a sealed tail light for trailers. I wonder why they just don't go with something like that?
I generally don't have a problem with corrosion but this was a used bus from up north. |
Bryan |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 2:09:44 PM
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any of you have trouble with the air fan clutch? we have 3 or 4 down for them @ less than 40k. Michael what I was staying is I fix what ever we buy, but my first and last taste of C2's I have been disapointed. If you love them God bless you. I'll fix them till we get rid of them or they burn to the ground, Or they can't afford to run them any more. I just couldn't suggest anyone buy them and sleep at night. I feel I have a pretty good view as we have 300 ce 10 re and 70 C2's. I knnow how much time I spend on each given the % of the fleet. This year we got 30 CE's and 35 C2's, I got 2 CE's down and 10 C2's and it's on going. Thomas needs to step to the plate and fix the problems. Every bus maker has problems, part of that keeps us all working.
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gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 2:26:07 PM
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| Hey skydiverbill, I didn't see any BBs in the mix. Dare I ask why? |
Bryan |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 07:04:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
Hey skydiverbill, I didn't see any BBs in the mix. Dare I ask why?
How about a Blue-Bird International 3300 series with a DT-466, The best bus ever built who could possibly not like them. |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 08:47:27 AM
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| they have not won a bid in years, we had some 90's on IH chassis. Just got rid of them last year. |
gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
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RCAutoTech
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2018 : 2:19:54 PM
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| I can agree with Bill, see a lot of Switch hub problems from water getting in from a drivers window left open or on the Huns under the front wheel well... um mud puddles?!? We have door issues, tail light issues (certain I’ve replaced the right hand tail lamp on 60% of the fleet) 48 buses, all C2s except for 5 IHs (13 letter chicken litter spreaders), having several VGT, EGR issues, the occasional power steering hose leak at the pump, coolant lines at the base of the radiators backing out, and I believe nearly ALL our buses have had the seats pulled apart, seat backs drilled and diverted back together by the guys from the warranty department.. and Lord help if you need seat foam... 4 months out. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2018 : 04:46:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RCAutoTech
and Lord help if you need seat foam... 4 months out.
www.tacbusparts.com Not sure where you are located, but they ship anywhere as far as I know. Wasn't sure if you meant IC or Thomas foam was 4 months out, so I ran all 4 potential part numbers, all in stock for immediate shipment.
This is NOT Lichter/FRP foam, it's Triad, it's higher in cost, and a much better product (at least from my experience.
I have a certifiaction letter here somewhere from Triad that it meets all the applicable FMVSS, so don't listen to your sales reps when they say it doesn't. Liability is on Triad for certifying the stuff. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4544 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2018 : 04:47:32 AM
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On the original topic, the C2 has come so far from what it was when this thread was started. I still have rust concerns. Sales guy says it's been addressed but won't go so far as to say HOW it was addressed.
Full disclosure: I do not purchase Thomas buses anymore, so don't my name fool you. |
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C2,,,, needed pro's and con's
