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 IC CE Warning Light Override
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4164 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  5:42:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hello all. I tried to do a search on this topic, but did not find anything directly relating to the override switch.

So here's my question: How do yours work on the IC CE? Michigan doesn't include override switches in their specs, but I think the IC CEs with steering wheel switches end up with them anyhow, because I drove one the other day that had them. I tried using the override when I was creeping to a stop at a bus stop, and SURPRISE! It turns off my ambers. I wasn't too happy. The next time I tried it, I had come to a full stop before pushing it, and that time it advanced from amber to red, rather than just shutting it all off. Now, I COMPLETELY agree with locking-out an override if you're not stopped. Afterall, if you're moving with your red lights on, what's the point of having an 8-light system? But I think it is ludicrous to have the ambers SHUT OFF by using this switch if you are moving.

So what is everyone else's experiences with this switch? Do they shut off the ambers if the bus is not stopped in every IC CE, or is it programmed that way because MI doesn't spec an override switch?

Just curious! I've learned my lesson.

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  12:14:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ohio requires the override on all buses built since may 1, 1978 when 8-ways were required.

The Original function of an override was to provide means of activating your reds in the event of flasher, wiring or switch malfunction (yes--I know--kinda wierd thinking--if the flasher is broken...). There was no requirement for exactly how this switch got it's power, and often it was run through the same breaker or fuse as the rest of the warning system, effictively rendering it useless in some cases.

Later down the line they were required to be fused seperately, and they were to function regardless of ignition switch position. Line of thinking there was they could be used if evacuating the bus without turning the key on.

What you are describing sounds like that switch is doing exactly what it is supposed to do...kills the ambers if applicable and force the reds on.

Virginia I believe requires a cancel switch that kills any lights that might be flashing...is that what you were thinking the override should be for?
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BBInt.10
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USA
1041 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  5:02:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit BBInt.10's Homepage  Send BBInt.10 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Ours here in CT are supposed to operate in that manner... if you're still rolling and hit the switch too soon, it turns off the ambers. However, I have found that on my bus, I can be going 1-2 mph and hit the switch, and the reds will still come on. Every once in a while I'll hit it a bit too soon and my ambers will go off, but normally when I'm moving at just a crawl I can turn them on without problem.

So Mike, what did you think of the IC CE?

If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver.
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  11:32:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay here's the answer....I drive a 2005 IC-Ce and use that button at every single one of my stops. There are two ways to use it.

Here's the first sequence:

1.) Turn Master Flasher switch on on left driver panel

2.) When speed has fallen under 35(-+)mph use the FLASHER ON/OFF button on the right side of the wheel.

3. When you have completely stopped (you have to be stopped or it won't work) push RED OVERRIDE

4.) Push DOOR OPEN on the other side of the steering wheel.

5.) Load or unload students. Afterwards, push DOOR CLOSE. The door will close and your red warning lights will continue to flash until you again push RED OVERRIDE

6.) Push RED OVERRIDE and continue


Here's the second sequence:

1.) Turn on master flasher switch on driver's left panel

2.) Push FLASHER ON/OFF on right side of wheel

3.) After stopping, Push DOOR OPEN

4.)After loading students, push RED OVERRIDE and the DOOR CLOSE

5.)Again, there should be the same result. The door should close and the reds will stay illuminated.

THE KEY IS, YOU CANNOT USE EITHER THE OVERRIDE SWITCH OR THE DOOR SWITCHES WHILE THAT BUS IS MOVING. IT IS A SAFETY FEATURE. BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, IT DOSEN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE FOR IT TO OVERRIDE THE AMBERS. THAT'S WHAT THE MASTER SWITCH IS FOR

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  09:35:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Having the ambers go off if you hit the override switch too early concerns me, especially since there's no warning (like the little chirp if you hit the door switch too early). I usually drive a bus with a manual door, and didn't realize I had gotten in the habit of cracking the door before coming to a complete stop (never open the door fully until setting the brake) until I had to take an 08 CE on my route.

My concern is if a driver like myself doesn't realize they're in that habit, and hits the override switch at a pickup where a student crosses the stret, they may not realize that instead of turning the reds on, they have turned the ambers off and now have a student crossing with no lights flashing.

I also have another question, on the 1st-gen CEs, and current FE/RE design, if you order a 3-position door switch with that white rotary style, why is it wired so that you can't close the door while keeping the reds on (as you're supposed to when dropping off a student who then crosses the street)?
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  6:00:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you guys trained to open your doors prior to stopping and/or setting the park brake, or is this a bad habit you pick up along the way?

That is a huge no-no here...in fact you automaticaly fail your CDL test if you do so.
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origcharger
Top Member

United States
619 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  9:05:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bus724



I also have another question, on the 1st-gen CEs, and current FE/RE design, if you order a 3-position door switch with that white rotary style, why is it wired so that you can't close the door while keeping the reds on (as you're supposed to when dropping off a student who then crosses the street)?



Both our 2006 and 2008 FEs have the three position door switches and you can close the door and have the reds keep flashing. I thought the whole purpose of a three way door switch was so you could have the stop arm out and reds flashing with the door closed.

Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2.
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  1:17:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I'm not talking about fully opening the door, but CT procedure is to "crack" the door (either unlatch the door just enough to activate the reds, or use the override switch with an automatic door), then shift to neutral and set the brake. Cracking the door before fully stopping is a bad habit I didn't realize I had picked up until I drove that CE.

FS Guy, the point being made is that the doors will not open on a CE until the bus is fully stopped. If you hit the "Door Open" button while moving, the dashboard beeps at you. The problem is, if you hit the "Red Override" while moving, it turns off the ambers--the reds only come on if you are at a complete stop. The standard controls for a CE are a steering wheel mounted switch with "Flashers On/Off" (ambers) and "Red Override".

I've noticed the problem with the 3-way switch on 2 different ICs, one was an 02 CE, one was an 08 RE. The middle position always turns the reds on, but just doesn't operate the door at all--if it's closed, it stays closed, if it's open, it stays open.
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origcharger
Top Member

United States
619 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  7:02:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bus724


I've noticed the problem with the 3-way switch on 2 different ICs, one was an 02 CE, one was an 08 RE. The middle position always turns the reds on, but just doesn't operate the door at all--if it's closed, it stays closed, if it's open, it stays open.



We have had two issues with the three position door switch on our FEs, one when new did not have the wires connected to the correct terminals and did not work properly. The other issue arose when the screws holding the switch body together came loose. I would check a bus that has it working properly and compare the wiring and while in there check the screws holding the switch together for tightness.

Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2.
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Jerred
Senior Member

United States
73 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  4:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Jerred's MSN Messenger address  Send Jerred a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The Red Override does basically what most have already said. It will cancel out the Ambers if you are still moving. Once stopped if activated the Reds will come on.

But bus724, we have '03 CEs and they have the 3 way switch, I was messing with it and if you turn it to the middle one the reds come on, but if you open the door and then put it back to the second position the door will close. But the reds are still on.

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe, on my '06 CE you have to be under 45mph., this is just the one thing that I hate about the newer CEs, everything else is quite nice.

So, I'm not as I seem...ok...just accept me. Just try to.

Edited by - Jerred on 04/09/2008 4:05:23 PM
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2008 :  07:00:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I also have another question, on the 1st-gen CEs, and current FE/RE design, if you order a 3-position door switch with that white rotary style, why is it wired so that you can't close the door while keeping the reds on (as you're supposed to when dropping off a student who then crosses the street)?


NOT TRUE! Before my current bus I drove a 2003 IC-CE with the three position airdoor (the white switch.) The function of the three position switch is just that, to keep the door closed and operate the red flashing lights and stop arms.

Here's the sequence for the 3 position

1.) Turn on MASTER FLASHER switch on driver's left panel

2.) Press FLASHER START on driver's left panel

3.) After stopping, Move the white door control switch from the left position to the middle position. This will activate the red flashing school bus lights. The entrance door SHOULD remain closed.

4.) When traffic allows and it is safe to do so, move the white door control switch to the right position. This will open the door. The red flashing lights will continue.

5.) When all students have loaded but have not yet sat, move the white door control switch to the middle position. The door will immediatley close BUT The red lights will continue to flash.

6.) After all have sat, and it is safe to do so, Move the white door control switch to the left position. The red lights will turn off.

7.) Turn off MASTER FLASHER switch.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2008 :  07:03:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
REMEMBER,
SOME COMPANIES OR DISTRICTS MAY SPEC A TWO POSITION DOOR WHICH WILL NOT ALLOW THE DRIVER TO HAVE THE DOOR CLOSED AND THE RED LIGHTS ON AT THE SAME TIME!

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2008 :  2:58:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC-CEiswhereiwannabe

Here's the sequence for the 3 position

1.) Turn on MASTER FLASHER switch on driver's left panel

2.) Press FLASHER START on driver's left panel

3.) After stopping, Move the white door control switch from the left position to the middle position. This will activate the red flashing school bus lights. The entrance door SHOULD remain closed.

4.) When traffic allows and it is safe to do so, move the white door control switch to the right position. This will open the door. The red flashing lights will continue.

5.) When all students have loaded but have not yet sat, move the white door control switch to the middle position. The door will immediatley close BUT The red lights will continue to flash.

6.) After all have sat, and it is safe to do so, Move the white door control switch to the left position. The red lights will turn off.

7.) Turn off MASTER FLASHER switch.



That's what I always thought. But on the 2 buses I've driven, when I tried to do #5, moving the switch to the middle position left the door open and lights on. I found out the other day those buses originally had a 2-position door switch, and were retrofitted, so maybe someone wired them wrong when installing.
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Kodie
Top Member

United States
1993 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2008 :  3:40:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We dont have the 3 way switches to my knowledge. Most often the drivers will flip the air door manual switch, flip the door switch to open and this allows reds to flash but the door wont move.

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe - Do you always turn off the master after you load students? Around here we leave it on all the time.

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Jerred
Senior Member

United States
73 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2008 :  4:43:31 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Jerred's MSN Messenger address  Send Jerred a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Here the master switch is supposed to stay on. But on the Blue Birds, they only have the Manual Button.

So, I'm not as I seem...ok...just accept me. Just try to.
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Jerred
Senior Member

United States
73 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2008 :  4:42:53 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Jerred's MSN Messenger address  Send Jerred a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well one thing I see here, the Master Switch isn't on the steering wheel, it's on the left, very back, furthest one away from you. But it should've worked. Just press it once and it does the rest. But then to have the Red Over Ride working seems very odd to me.

So, I'm not as I seem...ok...just accept me. Just try to.
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2008 :  06:52:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kodie

We dont have the 3 way switches to my knowledge. Most often the drivers will flip the air door manual switch, flip the door switch to open and this allows reds to flash but the door wont move.

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe - Do you always turn off the master after you load students? Around here we leave it on all the time.





Yea, we are taught here to turn off your master switch after every stop. Actually, our trainers teach you are to press the master switch and warning light switch at the same time when approaching each stop if you are in a bus without steering wheel switches. (the trainers say; "that's why they put them next to each other, and its one fewer time you don't have to take your hands off the wheel.") I don't actually do it except for after one stop because I have a railroad crossing immediatley following.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2008 :  07:01:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the First Student guy

We had a driver this morning had a problem with her lights. The Master switch on the steering wheel wouldn't turn the lights on, but her over ride switch worked. What is up with that?



I've had this happen on my 2005 too (as long as you meant the FLASHER ON/OFF button on the steering wheel; not master switch because my master switch is on my left panel all the way to the left back corner).

Yea, it's happened. I was driving down the road, pushed FLASHER ON/OFF and nothing happened. I immediatley hit my four-way hazard warning flashers since I still planned to stop at the rapidly approaching bus stop and tried the button again. Still nothing. After I stopped, secured the bus and hit RED OVERRIDE my ambers suddenly popped on for about two flashes and then switched to red. This went on for the rest of my route that day. Sometimes they would work, sometimes not.

They replaced the whole switch with some newer heavy duty switch from IC that had come out in like '06 I think. I guess it was a common problem. It has never happened again. The system works without a hitch now.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2008 :  6:38:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
We turn the master switch on at the beginning of the route and leave it on. If we stop at a railroad crossing we do not have to shut the master switch off. Michigan requires the system to be wired so that you must hit the amber activate in order for the reds to come on. If you hit the amber activate when the door is open the reds automatically come on. I prefer this setup over some states where the reds come on anytime the door is open unless you shut your master off.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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