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ATRE 1507
Top Member

United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  6:48:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
The larger part of the grill is some type of medal.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation

Edited by - ATRE 1507 on 07/28/2007 6:51:44 PM
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vabuslover
Advanced Member

United States
246 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:09:18 PM  Show Profile  Click to see vabuslover's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Maybe if IC gets enough complaints they will make a better looking grille like Blue Bird did with the Vision's cowl. There is always hope!
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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:12:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well this topic's getting old pretty quick.

I could almost guarantee that there is no more (or less) support in the front end of that bus than there was with the previous design crash wise. And unless the bus runs head on into a loaded dump truck or something I highly doubt the engine is going to be pushed up into the isle...come on, the motor is mounted between the frame rails, anything that runs into the front of that bus is going to get stopped or forked by those. Folks I've toured the manufacturing plant anything that can be made to be interchanged between FE, RE and CE will be made that way. I bet all they did was connect those access doors. A good example is looking at Ford Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, the only real difference are the grilles.

Edit: I don't think complaining will change anyones minds anytime soon. Someone got paid a lot of money to redesign that grille I'm sure they love it. Also I wouldn't be completely shocked if the grille was made out of plastic...probably not more than 1/8" thick.

Edited by - Chris on 07/28/2007 7:17:04 PM
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ICfan
Top Member

USA
1251 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:19:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit ICfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!! Its reminding me of Greenville South Carolina with those 1998's Thomas MVPs! Big disappointment from IC.

Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,

http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3527 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:29:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

I think if this bus were in a head on collision the thing would be destroyed beyond belief. There is no structural support with that wide grille.


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20061218&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=612180804&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=2

Look at the bus, then the trailer.

-Jake

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ATRE 1507
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United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:30:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.






That bus was hit head on....

The engine stayed put.

There is proof of support.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3527 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:31:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes but think of the driver and the students in the front! Heck the ones sitting behind the door must have got it bad! But that is good the engine at least stayed put.

-Jake

Edited by - Jake on 07/28/2007 7:33:30 PM
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ATRE 1507
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United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:33:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation

Edited by - ATRE 1507 on 07/28/2007 7:35:11 PM
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3527 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:38:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake

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78fordwayne
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USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:54:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 92WardSenatorFE

quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake


I dought any other bus would have held up any better. Thats just silly

Robert B.

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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:56:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Bus bodies are geared more towards roll over situations than head on crashes...how often to buses get slammed in the bulkhead.
Thats a rather weird accident to point out. The bus was so destroyed because it apparently creamed the whole back left of the corner. You have the bottom left corner, left wall and top left corner being strong points, the door wasn't going to hurt anything, so pretty much a [ shape cut into the bus, not much will stop something like that.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:00:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.






That bus was hit head on....

The engine stayed put.

There is proof of support.



Head on? It looks to me like the bus rear-ended a 18 wheeler. Unless the semi was backin up really fast!
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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:01:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
They just put that new reverse gear in those beasts, 30 mph in reverse!
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Nick
Advanced Member

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:19:23 PM  Show Profile  Send Nick an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 92WardSenatorFE

quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake



You're right! A Thomas FE would have just bounced off without any damage! ZOMG they must recall all of them!!

But seriously, all buses MUST meet the same safety standards regardless of manufacturer. If the ICs didn't they would not be on the road, just like any other bus. There would be no difference if it were a Thomas or Bird or any other kind of bus for that matter.

There was a Greyhound MCI that had a pretty awful crash around here a while back, and it looked pretty much the same. Does that mean they're unsafe? No.

But I guess I must just be making excuses for IC. CRUCIFY ME!!!!!

IC the future, and it is bright.
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1983WardFord
Top Member

USA
1395 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:28:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At first, I thought the new FE design was ugly, but it's grown on me. I have to agree with the people who say it's old-school looking... Maybe that's one of the reason it's grown on me so quickly. Yeah, I'm sure IC could've tried a little harder, but it's not so bad.

Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
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Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:40:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Frontal collisions in any school bus, no matter if it is a conventional, front engine, rear engine, or Type B are always devastating. School buses are built mainly to sustain rollovers and side impact collisions, as they are more common than frontal and rear collisions.

The problem with head-ons in buses is that there is no significant strength that the sides have... there is the entrance door and stepwell, large windshields, roof caps which are essentially hollow, and then the other major components such as electronics.

Personally, I think there should be much more testing of school buses in all types of crashes, to the extent of the NHTSA and IIHS car tests. Once these various tests are performed, star ratings should be given to each product, so we REALLY know which bus is safest. I am sure that some buses are stronger than others in certain situations, and it would be nice to know what is best for the children to really ride...
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  9:25:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, there really ain't much up front on any of 'em....but come on, us professional drivers are not supposed to run dead into stuff!

I wonder if this outfit has ever tested school buses? It's a SUPER neat facility located just down the road from here on US RT 29 before you get to Charlottesville. My neighbor is an insurance executive and has offered to arrange a tour of this place for me....but I haven't taken him up on it yet...

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/vrc/default.html

edited to a PS: When I'm too old to drive bus anymore...maybe I can get a job as a crash test dummy. Look at the pic of the dummy family...I'd make a PERFECT grandpa dummy!

Edited by - IC on 07/28/2007 9:30:34 PM
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  9:37:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich



Personally, I think there should be much more testing of school buses in all types of crashes, to the extent of the NHTSA and IIHS car tests. Once these various tests are performed, star ratings should be given to each product, so we REALLY know which bus is safest. I am sure that some buses are stronger than others in certain situations, and it would be nice to know what is best for the children to really ride...


I was thinking the same thing. School buses should go through the same types of frontal tests that cars and lite trucks go threw. The star ratings would be a great idea

Robert B.


Edited by - 78fordwayne on 07/28/2007 9:38:13 PM
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  06:26:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good for Hilliard...replaced all of the Crown by Carpenter FEs this summer. Looking forward to seeing those things everyday! My tax dollars at work.

Edited by - Thomasbus24 on 07/29/2007 06:28:47 AM
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Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  11:22:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



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Chris
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USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  11:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



No kidding Richard, the wind can only blow one way without problems, winds going two ways just create a tornado full of crap.
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Nick
Advanced Member

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  12:01:39 PM  Show Profile  Send Nick an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



I stand by what I said: OK but much uglier than before.

IC the future, and it is bright.
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4413 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  12:48:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



They talk about those of us who are loyal to Thomas but no matter how cheap, ugly or outdated the new IC products are they will continue to praise them. I don't really have a problem with that, I just think it is funny how they make comments like "the Blue Bird and Thomas fans aren't going to approve of ANYTHING IC does...EVER!" Their initial comments show that they don't really like what IC has done but they eventually just say it's good enough and that they like it. At least I can admit that the Thomas EF is a dated design and in need of major improvements in the drivers area. I've also been very vocal about what I've wanted to see changed on the C2, never giving up and saying "good enough".

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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IC-RE
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USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  1:16:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thomas86 a, I agree with you, I am one of those people who was taken aback at first glance, I am not a fan of FE buses, but we have so many of them in our special ed department, I have to get used to them. We have hundreds of IC FEs, Genesis FE, Thomas EFs and a bunch of Blue Bird TC2000 FEs for regular and special ed. No matter what, I think the BB TCs are the best, however I do like our 2006, 2007 and 2008 IC FEs better than our Thomas EFs, thats just me. I will have to get used to this new design because they will be crawling all over Fairfax next year.... but like I said to begin with.... you just need to get used to it. I am used to the Thomas EFs, in fact I think we have some pretty nice ones around here, (not sure if you've seen a picture of one of them) I just dont like them as much.

This "new" design will take some getting used to, and who knows, people may really like it.

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4544 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  2:16:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I was just by the Hilliard bus lot and saw these new buses in person as I drove by...not too ugly IMO. Better than the Crowns they replaced! I wish them luck with the new '07 engines and accessories.
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Nick
Advanced Member

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  3:35:32 PM  Show Profile  Send Nick an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a

quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



They talk about those of us who are loyal to Thomas but no matter how cheap, ugly or outdated the new IC products are they will continue to praise them. I don't really have a problem with that, I just think it is funny how they make comments like "the Blue Bird and Thomas fans aren't going to approve of ANYTHING IC does...EVER!" Their initial comments show that they don't really like what IC has done but they eventually just say it's good enough and that they like it. At least I can admit that the Thomas EF is a dated design and in need of major improvements in the drivers area. I've also been very vocal about what I've wanted to see changed on the C2, never giving up and saying "good enough".



Yes, and I (and most of us IC shills ) can agree that both the FE and RE are outdated and in need of overhauls, and that the facelifts are not really much of an improvement. I will not say "ehh, it's good enough" if it isn't, and I think most would agree with me here. We can only hope for a more thoroughly revised product in the near future.
So you can't generalize just because one or two people are a bit indecisive about their preferences.

IC the future, and it is bright.

Edited by - Nick on 07/29/2007 3:37:56 PM
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  9:16:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i think that photoshop looks great!

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member

USA
1315 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  09:08:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is one ugly dog. First the Thomas new grille, and now the IC new grille, what will Blue Bird do? Blue Bird by far has the best FE model out there. That new grille on the IC reminds me of an old Thomas.

I'll show you my air brakes if you show me yours.
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Lifestar Fe
Top Member

United States
521 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  12:58:56 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Lifestar Fe's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Great photoshop. Thos headlights look better on this bus than on the RE! As for the new grill, I think it is ok, but it looks way outdated. I think IC should replace that oval window between the door and the front with a rectangular window. The rounded edges make it look old.

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BlueBirdMan
Senior Member

193 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  1:35:32 PM  Show Profile  Send BlueBirdMan an AOL message  Reply with Quote
kind of reminds me of one of the last carpenter/crown FEs. I agree blue bird has the best looking FE right now

Bring back the "backing" sign!
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Kodie
Top Member

United States
2028 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  2:46:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a minor repair job of an FE here, I couldnt get the new headlights but here it is tell me what you think.


Edited by - Kodie on 07/31/2007 3:31:38 PM
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jjf221fe
Advanced Member

United States
275 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  2:55:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit jjf221fe's Homepage  Send jjf221fe an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Nice job, IC Kodie. Although that front end reminds me much of the former RE without it having the newer headlights photoshopped.

What is this "Hydraulic Brakes" nonsense you speak of?
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vabuslover
Advanced Member

United States
246 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  3:48:27 PM  Show Profile  Click to see vabuslover's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I hope Blue Bird leaves their FE/RE the way it is. It kinda has the looks of the AA and TC2000 put together.

Can you still get a manual door in the FE?
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member

USA
1478 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  4:22:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit GMCBlueBird83's Homepage  Send GMCBlueBird83 an AOL message  Send GMCBlueBird83 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I was bored so I figured I'd share my version. It features the International 7600 headlights plus a rectangular window in front of the service door instead of the dated looking oval window:


I want to thank Ryan for taking the original photo
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Lifestar Fe
Top Member

United States
521 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2007 :  4:38:16 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Lifestar Fe's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Those all look great! if IC only had made the FE with Kodies grill, a rectangular window, and newer headlights...THAT would be a cool photoshop.

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