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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  4:52:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am definatly not a fan of IC's looks now. Wow its ugly at first, but then it starts to look okay. But I am still not pleased with the way IC is changing the looks of their buses to look worse.

-Jake


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Kodie
Top Member

United States
1993 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  4:57:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think if this bus were in a head on collision the thing would be destroyed beyond belief. There is no structural support with that wide grille.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:09:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:15:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
WOW that remindes me of like a 1980 Thomas ER with that huge grill in the front.

However I do like how the windshield and door now line up with the rest of the windows

Robert B.


Edited by - 78fordwayne on 07/28/2007 5:16:33 PM
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Kodie
Top Member

United States
1993 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:20:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.
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Busdude3
Top Member

USA
1178 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:34:14 PM  Show Profile  Send Busdude3 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Wouldn't all front engines' engines be pushed up in the aisle in a head-on collision? There is usualy some stunning damage when a FE gets involved in a wreck.

Edited by - Busdude3 on 07/28/2007 5:55:59 PM
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Kodie
Top Member

United States
1993 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:39:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes but this one especially.
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ATRE 1507
Top Member

United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  5:57:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.




That could happen with the old one too.

You are based souly on looks.

You need to think about Quality...

Every RE-design is to improve the quality of the bus NOT the looks.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation
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98TomFord
Top Member

USA
812 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  6:46:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit 98TomFord's Homepage  Send 98TomFord an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Thank you ATRE_1507, I was gona say the same thing you did but you beat me to it. Remember folks (IC Kodie coughcough) that yes while the looks of a bus are always a factor when designing, that the structural safety of the bus and the safety of the riders inside is always top priority. I'm pretty positive that the entire grill isn't plastic like you may think it is, I'm sure it's metal or aluminum at a pretty decent gauge.

As for the front end collision, any kind of transit bus is going to have pretty bad front end damage no matter what kind of bus it is; BlueBird, Thomas, IC, Gillig, Crown, MCI, ect.; they all have no real protection period from a front end crash.

Just remember not to base your theories totally on looks now, it won't get you far with your reasonings Just some food for thought...

My Ford Can Turn On $50, Can Your Int? ~Ford Buses - Gems To The Eyes~
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ATRE 1507
Top Member

United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  6:48:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
The larger part of the grill is some type of medal.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation

Edited by - ATRE 1507 on 07/28/2007 6:51:44 PM
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vabuslover
Advanced Member

United States
246 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:09:18 PM  Show Profile  Click to see vabuslover's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Maybe if IC gets enough complaints they will make a better looking grille like Blue Bird did with the Vision's cowl. There is always hope!
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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:12:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well this topic's getting old pretty quick.

I could almost guarantee that there is no more (or less) support in the front end of that bus than there was with the previous design crash wise. And unless the bus runs head on into a loaded dump truck or something I highly doubt the engine is going to be pushed up into the isle...come on, the motor is mounted between the frame rails, anything that runs into the front of that bus is going to get stopped or forked by those. Folks I've toured the manufacturing plant anything that can be made to be interchanged between FE, RE and CE will be made that way. I bet all they did was connect those access doors. A good example is looking at Ford Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, the only real difference are the grilles.

Edit: I don't think complaining will change anyones minds anytime soon. Someone got paid a lot of money to redesign that grille I'm sure they love it. Also I wouldn't be completely shocked if the grille was made out of plastic...probably not more than 1/8" thick.

Edited by - Chris on 07/28/2007 7:17:04 PM
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ICfan
Top Member

USA
1251 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:19:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit ICfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!! Its reminding me of Greenville South Carolina with those 1998's Thomas MVPs! Big disappointment from IC.

Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,

http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:29:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

I think if this bus were in a head on collision the thing would be destroyed beyond belief. There is no structural support with that wide grille.


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20061218&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=612180804&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=2

Look at the bus, then the trailer.

-Jake


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ATRE 1507
Top Member

United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:30:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.






That bus was hit head on....

The engine stayed put.

There is proof of support.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:31:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes but think of the driver and the students in the front! Heck the ones sitting behind the door must have got it bad! But that is good the engine at least stayed put.

-Jake

Edited by - Jake on 07/28/2007 7:33:30 PM
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ATRE 1507
Top Member

United States
673 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:33:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit ATRE 1507's Homepage  Click to see ATRE 1507's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.


Bus 1507: 2001 AmTran RE

Student
Fairfax County
Area One Transportation

Edited by - ATRE 1507 on 07/28/2007 7:35:11 PM
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:38:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake


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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:54:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 92WardSenatorFE

quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake


I dought any other bus would have held up any better. Thats just silly

Robert B.

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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  7:56:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Bus bodies are geared more towards roll over situations than head on crashes...how often to buses get slammed in the bulkhead.
Thats a rather weird accident to point out. The bus was so destroyed because it apparently creamed the whole back left of the corner. You have the bottom left corner, left wall and top left corner being strong points, the door wasn't going to hurt anything, so pretty much a [ shape cut into the bus, not much will stop something like that.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:00:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie

quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

IC Kodie, you made a good point there. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the pictures.



Honestly there is no visible support. I bet you could take a hammer and smash that whole grille in. Also if that got hit that motor would be right up in the middle of the aisle. Thats poorly thought out, although it is slowly growing on me.






That bus was hit head on....

The engine stayed put.

There is proof of support.



Head on? It looks to me like the bus rear-ended a 18 wheeler. Unless the semi was backin up really fast!
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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:01:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
They just put that new reverse gear in those beasts, 30 mph in reverse!
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Nick
Advanced Member

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:19:23 PM  Show Profile  Send Nick an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 92WardSenatorFE

quote:
Originally posted by ATRE 1507

That's exactly what I was pointing out...

There would be injuries in almost ANY accident like that.

There's obliviously support there.



I do agree to a good point, but still, the rest of the body should have held up better. I don't believe its that safe. I am rather discusted with that accident.

-Jake



You're right! A Thomas FE would have just bounced off without any damage! ZOMG they must recall all of them!!

But seriously, all buses MUST meet the same safety standards regardless of manufacturer. If the ICs didn't they would not be on the road, just like any other bus. There would be no difference if it were a Thomas or Bird or any other kind of bus for that matter.

There was a Greyhound MCI that had a pretty awful crash around here a while back, and it looked pretty much the same. Does that mean they're unsafe? No.

But I guess I must just be making excuses for IC. CRUCIFY ME!!!!!

IC the future, and it is bright.
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1983WardFord
Top Member

USA
1375 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:28:42 PM  Show Profile  Send 1983WardFord an AOL message  Send 1983WardFord a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
At first, I thought the new FE design was ugly, but it's grown on me. I have to agree with the people who say it's old-school looking... Maybe that's one of the reason it's grown on me so quickly. Yeah, I'm sure IC could've tried a little harder, but it's not so bad.

Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
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Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  8:40:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Frontal collisions in any school bus, no matter if it is a conventional, front engine, rear engine, or Type B are always devastating. School buses are built mainly to sustain rollovers and side impact collisions, as they are more common than frontal and rear collisions.

The problem with head-ons in buses is that there is no significant strength that the sides have... there is the entrance door and stepwell, large windshields, roof caps which are essentially hollow, and then the other major components such as electronics.

Personally, I think there should be much more testing of school buses in all types of crashes, to the extent of the NHTSA and IIHS car tests. Once these various tests are performed, star ratings should be given to each product, so we REALLY know which bus is safest. I am sure that some buses are stronger than others in certain situations, and it would be nice to know what is best for the children to really ride...
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  9:25:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, there really ain't much up front on any of 'em....but come on, us professional drivers are not supposed to run dead into stuff!

I wonder if this outfit has ever tested school buses? It's a SUPER neat facility located just down the road from here on US RT 29 before you get to Charlottesville. My neighbor is an insurance executive and has offered to arrange a tour of this place for me....but I haven't taken him up on it yet...

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/vrc/default.html

edited to a PS: When I'm too old to drive bus anymore...maybe I can get a job as a crash test dummy. Look at the pic of the dummy family...I'd make a PERFECT grandpa dummy!

Edited by - IC on 07/28/2007 9:30:34 PM
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2007 :  9:37:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich



Personally, I think there should be much more testing of school buses in all types of crashes, to the extent of the NHTSA and IIHS car tests. Once these various tests are performed, star ratings should be given to each product, so we REALLY know which bus is safest. I am sure that some buses are stronger than others in certain situations, and it would be nice to know what is best for the children to really ride...


I was thinking the same thing. School buses should go through the same types of frontal tests that cars and lite trucks go threw. The star ratings would be a great idea

Robert B.


Edited by - 78fordwayne on 07/28/2007 9:38:13 PM
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  06:26:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good for Hilliard...replaced all of the Crown by Carpenter FEs this summer. Looking forward to seeing those things everyday! My tax dollars at work.

Edited by - Thomasbus24 on 07/29/2007 06:28:47 AM
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Kodie
Top Member

United States
1993 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  07:53:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you know I think it is finally growing on me. I like it, but that would look better with the lower skirt.

Edited by - Kodie on 07/29/2007 07:53:34 AM
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Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  11:22:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



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Chris
Top Member

USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  11:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



No kidding Richard, the wind can only blow one way without problems, winds going two ways just create a tornado full of crap.
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Nick
Advanced Member

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  12:01:39 PM  Show Profile  Send Nick an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



I stand by what I said: OK but much uglier than before.

IC the future, and it is bright.
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  12:48:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich

This thread is full of flip flopping, can ANYONE make up their mind?

First people complain about it's looks and it "not being safe" and then they love it.......



They talk about those of us who are loyal to Thomas but no matter how cheap, ugly or outdated the new IC products are they will continue to praise them. I don't really have a problem with that, I just think it is funny how they make comments like "the Blue Bird and Thomas fans aren't going to approve of ANYTHING IC does...EVER!" Their initial comments show that they don't really like what IC has done but they eventually just say it's good enough and that they like it. At least I can admit that the Thomas EF is a dated design and in need of major improvements in the drivers area. I've also been very vocal about what I've wanted to see changed on the C2, never giving up and saying "good enough".

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  1:16:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thomas86 a, I agree with you, I am one of those people who was taken aback at first glance, I am not a fan of FE buses, but we have so many of them in our special ed department, I have to get used to them. We have hundreds of IC FEs, Genesis FE, Thomas EFs and a bunch of Blue Bird TC2000 FEs for regular and special ed. No matter what, I think the BB TCs are the best, however I do like our 2006, 2007 and 2008 IC FEs better than our Thomas EFs, thats just me. I will have to get used to this new design because they will be crawling all over Fairfax next year.... but like I said to begin with.... you just need to get used to it. I am used to the Thomas EFs, in fact I think we have some pretty nice ones around here, (not sure if you've seen a picture of one of them) I just dont like them as much.

This "new" design will take some getting used to, and who knows, people may really like it.

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2007 :  2:16:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I was just by the Hilliard bus lot and saw these new buses in person as I drove by...not too ugly IMO. Better than the Crowns they replaced! I wish them luck with the new '07 engines and accessories.
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