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mrbluebird
Advanced Member
USA
381 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2006 : 05:53:15 AM
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is whanting to become a transportation director a good choice i need advice or is working for a school bus dealership a better choice .
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Edited by - mrbluebird on 12/11/2006 06:19:07 AM
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 07:58:45 AM
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Being a "bus nut" will not make you a good TD. If it's the buses themselves that are the attraction, then devote your talents and energy through a bus dealer or manufacturer.
To be a good TD, you need to effectively lead people and manage systems and processes. You need good people skills, good communication skills, good judgement, and a high tolerance for stress and BS. You have to enjoy children and be devoted to safety.
Very little actual time is spent with the buses themselves; they become a tool with which to get the job done. The extra knowledge and interest in buses will help when dealing with maintenance issues. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 09:28:13 AM
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Were both choices offered which would you choose? It is you, not the job that that makes for a good fit. The fact you are questioning your own purpose, beyond perhaps your spouse's input, may indicate that you are not ready for either position. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 4:14:11 PM
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Good point JK.
If you are you not sure of which, you are not ready yet for either. Only you know deep down inside. |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 5:08:42 PM
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Become a school bus driver first!
I don't know if my operation is unique or not, but our TD and upper management (some earning 6-figure salaries), have ALL been school bus drivers. In fact, they are STILL required to maintain their CDLs and other driver certifications...but they do get rusty....our TD knocked down a stop sign at our last Road-eo. That was HYSTERICAL!
And get at least a bachelors degree in a related field! Most school systems are very education oriented, as well they should be. My district even pays for college level courses for it's drivers. More than a few of our drivers have risen from the drivers' seat to the classroom.
We even had a school bus driver that rose through the ranks to become Superintendant of Schools! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 6:22:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
... Become a school bus driver first! ...
All of what you are saying is true. And all of it is mostly necessary and mostly unnecessary.
The contradiction comes not from the credentials but depending on the person.
I know of at least one bus driver with little education that would make a superb TD, even a school principal or superintendent for that matter. He has the ability to sell concepts and to manage interdependently, along with a high ethical standard. The most he might need is some budget training, often exclusive to the specific employer anyway.
The same for a few parents in our community, either of which could fill the positions I've mentioned above like a glove.
There are those that have all the tools in the shed one could possibly have and yet that can't fix the simplest thing. And there are those that can achieve amazing results with a pair of pliers, a screwdriver and a hammer.
A formal education is a tool, not a qualification in my opinion. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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mrbluebird
Advanced Member
USA
381 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 03:51:56 AM
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| thank you all very much this has been very helpful i wish you all a merry christmas and a happy new year. |
YOUR CHILDREN'S SAFETY IS OUR BUSINESS |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 07:55:32 AM
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| New Transportation Director opening posted in the SBF Classifieds for anyone interested. |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 09:33:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CPCSC_TD
Good point JK.
If you are you not sure of which, you are not ready yet for either. Only you know deep down inside.
Agreed.
Regardless, some hold back because of self-defeating issues, never to really know what might have been had they jumped in ready or not. Tuff call to make sometimes. Some think that when opportunity is presented, there is purpose in that - perhaps a call to stretch beyond what one thinks they can achieve. Employers rarely would hire someone with the purpose of firing him or her. When a decision is made, a position accepted, then often the employer will provide support to fill in any gaps a new employee might have. The employer wants their decision to hire that person to also be the right one. That can help the newbie obtain success where that perhaps would not happen otherwise. Decisions - decisions. Leaders know to make them before the opportunity disappears into oblivion and perhaps never to return.
You're right. No decision can be made FOR mrbluebird in this matter. But we can bounce him back and forth like a ping-pong ball until he makes a decision for himself. (jk)
"Every human has four endowments - self awareness, conscience, independent will and creative imagination. These give us the ultimate human freedom... The power to choose, to respond, to change." --Stephen Covey
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/12/2006 09:38:32 AM |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 1:52:01 PM
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| I do both here, I'm the technician and the Trans Supervisor, Its two jobs they rolled into one and Its can be VERY stressfull if the phone rings and your under a bus working on it then you have to change gears from tech person to a people person. Many different facets during the day for sure and I love it. I know half of my job is not the excact same as working for a dealer but darn close to it. |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 9:42:12 PM
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Why be a transportation director?
T/D?
Hated by school bus drivers (most)
Hated by parents
Hated by contractors
-SBD: Why is this T/D making me do this route this way
-Parent: This T/D, if I can only come up with some way to make his/her life miserable and keep calling him/her I can get this stop moved right in front of my house
-Contractor: How do we work together our bus drivers hate you for changing the routes that you had no control over because your boss has rules for you- but we are going to blame you-the T/D
-Bus Drivers- That T/D is so strict
-That T/D kisses the parents a##
T/D: These parents get on my case 24/7.
My opinion: I see what the T/D goes through- The T/D here is a nice person, to be quite honest, but I would never, ever be able to handle his/her job- I'd have to admit myself to the mental institution.
T/D ads should read:
-Even though you don't want to fire good sbd's- you will have to- to satisfy the wants of the parents of the town- those who keep the corrupt system rolling
-You will have to kiss the parent's behinds
-The parents will call you 24/7- they will want the stops right in front of their houses
-They will keep calling you
-They will complain about every bus driver
-The bus drivers will blame you for something
-The routes will be screwed up and it's all your fault
-You will be trash talked
If it's for you, then good luck. T/D job requirements differ from area to area.
My experience with the current T/D has been great (although I can't speak for others). Hope the T/D is supplied with good health insurance and good pay. |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/13/2006 9:48:05 PM |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 08:43:16 AM
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Hey amtran, I wouldn't want to be a TD either! But here, most of what you mentioned....routing, parents, etc is handled way down the chain of command....by our 25, or so, Route Supervisers (we call 'em Rangers). As are most all personell matters...you'd have to get in a HEAP of trouble for the TD to be involved.
Our TD handles the big stuff....the $80+ million dollar transportation budget, dealing with the School Board, etc. Most of us drivers only see her twice a year, at the safety meetings.
She did get involved in one mundane incident recently.....a coach wrote her a scathing e-mail about a driver that refused to allow the team to board the bus in their cleats. The verdict: players may board the bus in their cleats!
Face it, TD is a "political" job and the students, teachers/coaches, etc are her "constituents". And as much as it grates on us drivers...they are why we have a job! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 1:31:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
... Face it, TD is a "political" job and the students, teachers/coaches, etc are her "constituents". And as much as it grates on us drivers...they are why we have a job!
Rubbish!
The reason we have a job, most of us anyway, is to help keep children safe.
Has politics these days changed that as well?
The exact same demand occurred at my community's facility some years ago.
The response: Absolutely Not! No cleats and no dirt when boarding the bus - Period.
Nothing makes less sense than when allowing a politician to head a bus driver training safety class.
The politician makes some sort of speech, then ought to be expected to leave the room. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 4:58:00 PM
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No JK, our job is SAFELY transporting children to and from school. I didn't think I had to say that. What I meant was that school children are why we have a job...ie. no kids=no job.
We were talking about a TD's job and maybe I shouldn't have called it a "political" job....maybe "diplomatic" job would have been a better word. They must try (but rarely do) please everybody.
While you seem to see everything in black and white, TDs (ours, anyway) must also see shades of gray. And make a decision. That's why she earns a six-figure salary.
About the cleat issue....the coach was concerned that an athlete could be injured stepping on a nail or glass while walking around a parking lot in stocking feet waiting to board the bus. Our TD agreed. Mud is not a factor....we are paid to clean the bus after a messy game...the driver in question just didn't want to. Too bad!
These kids' parents pay a LOT of local taxes around here and they expect top notch service from the County in all areas. If bus floors need to be replaced because of cleats, so be it! (It's not really that hard on the floors anyway...only baseball still uses metal cleats).
mrbluebird: Always try to work for a public school district, whether TD or driver, and everything in between! Contractors are motivated only by profit. They will chisel out savings wherever they can. Our TD can (and does) spend every every penny in her budget on the job at hand....without any regard for owners, stockholders, or their ilk. |
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dem84skeeprollinup
Top Member
USA
888 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 6:38:32 PM
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I know its not my job. I spent some time talking to a couple of local td's and they seems like they are more like a lawyer who deals with buses.
I know I could never do it. I would never spend enough time around the buses. I would prefer a position in what i do best, sales!! |
Do the world a favor and bring back GMC and Ford conventional chassis......
 
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 11:30:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
... While you seem to see everything in black and white, TDs (ours, anyway) must also see shades of gray. And make a decision. That's why she earns a six-figure salary.
Interesting. Shades of gray. You seem to be reasoning that the only way to interpret all those shades of gray correctly requires paid a six-figure salary?
I question that excuse. Were that the case our nation's school bus drivers ought to be earning somewhere in the area of $80,000-100,000 dollars or more annually.
There does seem to be a lot of gray out there that apparently must be interpreted.
A lot of gray out there, and depending on other relevant conditions, can indicate to me that there is snow in the forecast.
A bald tire that still holds air can qualify for use when considering a certain shade of gray.
Black and white states that at a certain point the tire must be replaced.
Who made that entire gray area and every shade of gray?
It was not those so-called black and white promoters that see the reason for our effort is to keep kids safe by using safe practices rather than by replacing some of those practices with gray practices when convenient.
Black and white decision-making does seem part of a successful process, especially when working with certain kids. But it seems too often promoted that what might be true of the whole must also be true of it's parts. No evidence has been provided to support that as true.
It is true that sugar is part of a cake, but sugar by itself does not make a chocolate cake. Nor can chocolate be replaced with mint and still get only a chocolate cake. The only way such a thing can happen is when we pretend or use a chemical imitation. Not real, but fake – not genuine but a deception.
Gray can create confusion, which in turn can create more grays. A lot of grays can indicate convenience, favors or politics misapplied to a given situation.
The cultivation of gray can indicate a pursuit of excuses given more value than that of maintaining children’s safety and helping the bus driver keep kids safe. Gray also seems more confusing to kids than to mature adults.
Indifference toward a safe practice among the adults, not among the kids, is what often seems to help create those so-called gray areas.
To enforce a safe practice sometimes and with some kids, but not with other kids, can also create that so-called lots of gray out there. (I’m exploring enforcement here – not necessarily punishment.)
When too many grays are given a home in the minds and thoughts of adults and children, it is gray that then can end up promoted. That mindset can bring indifference toward a safe practice from the adults involved.
This seems when the use of an unsafe practice can begin to overtake the use of a safe practice.
Are we, ourselves, in league with what can be considered professional school bus drivers? - or - Are we what my mom used to refer to as just one more bump on a log that kids and the community can't trust?
About that cleat issue. Seems you are saying the coach was concerned that an athlete could be injured stepping on a nail or glass while walking around a parking lot in stocking feet waiting to board the bus. And that your TD agreed.
Would question paying any TD or coach when they have not yet discovered the power of an extra pair of dry, clean shoes. Surprised I would have to even mention that, seems so obvious.
And a far as mud not a factor? What a waste of resources, especially when a small amount of courtesy and respect toward property could eliminate that cost.
If money is that fluid at your your facilaty would they consider sending me a $100.00? I promise - I will waste it. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 12/17/2006 12:06:48 AM |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 12:34:33 AM
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JK, I'm not taking the bait. But I will say...I'm SO glad I'm not you!
BTW, of course you're not the first one to think of a change of shoes for the team....but that ain't real life....and unlike you, I have no need to impose my "authority" over my athletes coming off the field of battle. My job is simply to get them all home safely. I will clean up the mess later.
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 01:02:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
JK, I'm not taking the bait. But I will say...I'm SO glad I'm not you!
No bait to take. Simply responding to your opinion in your post with my opinion in my post. Have a nice day in your real life. I'll keep mine - cleaner buses and less waste of resources. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/17/2006 01:16:40 AM |
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contactbluebird
Senior Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 04:53:43 AM
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| Six figure salary would be nice! |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 5:47:55 PM
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| IC, I must agree with you. In most cases I'd say that the T/D is a very political/diplomatic job. When I drove city buses, our T/D didn't even have her CDL. She didn't know the first thing about driving buses. She had us evaluated by "secret riders" who also didn't have their CDL's. I thought that was quite unfair. She had retired from a career in the air force, then all of the sudden she's in charge of a transit bus service at a fairly large university. The "assistant managers", student drivers who got promoted, actually ran that department. They knew more about the workings of the department than did the T/D. The T/D spent her time mainly going around campus giving talks trying to recruit drivers, and doing PR with the campus newspaper. She was a very good "people person"... but did she know a lot about the bus service? Not really. That was the job of the assistant managers... which did an awful lot of work for what they were paid in my opinion. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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John Farr
Top Member
USA
642 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 04:43:22 AM
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The T/D must deal with whatever comes in the door. To maintain consistency it was my practice to develop a written procedure for recurring issues. That helped the staff in dealing consistently with the same issues. When there was an issue that flirted with School Bosard Policy, I'd present it to superintendent's cabinet for discussion. On rare occasions policy would be clarified or even changed by Board action. Involving the superintendant was very helpful to office staff and drivers who had been living with some sort of ambiguity which was difficult to interpret and enforce.
But that is dealing with the more predictable events. A T/D must deal with everything, including the most unusual. I like what was said earlier. The first criterion for any decision is, of course, safety. Remember that we are in a service-oriented business. After safety there are a host of constituent needs (student, parent, administrator, driver, etc.). If no prededent has been established for an event, I would normally discuss it with my boss and mentor. Together we would find a solution we could live with - and we could change course as we gathered more information. While I was attempting to resolve the problem, my boss would be updating the superintendent, if the issue could be volatile. THAT is how it should work! Everyone in the organization should be on the same page - and even if an individual disagreed with the disrtict's course of action, they have the choice of following the directive or facing the consequences for not doing so. That is what consensus is all about. We all cooperate and support the decision, even though silently we may be less supportive.
As far as the T/D dealing with problems from all directions: true enough! But following a procedure makes resolution easy. The driver - IF FOLLOWING DISTRICT PROCEDURE - must be 100% supported. Not every student, parent or driver will always be satisfied with enforcement of policies and procedures. If the T/D acts like a pompous bureaucrat in enforcement, they will find resistance at all quarters. Sometimes finding common ground and giving a small concession will do the trick. Delivering a negative message in a kind, respectful and patient manner will make MOST accept the decision in an understanding manner. For example, going to a bus stop to observe is a good gesture and shows the parent/homeowner that you care enough to go to them to resolve a problem.
After exhausting all avenues open to me, the few who are still not satisfied deserve to talk to my boss. Of course, I've already discussed the situation with him/her and I've agreed to live with whatever decision is made. A good boss will bring me in to a meeting with the unhappy party so we can work together to find a resolution. In some cases the boss will give me signals when my position is unacceptable to him/her. It is then left for us to find an alternative solution.
Call all of this "political," but to me it is good management practice. We work in a political organization in that school board members are elected and we work at their pleasure. The day-to-day operation is left to us to do the right thing.
A cliche that applies to the T/D: "we don't have problems, just opportunities to improve." I do not see problems and complaints as negative. I always enjoyed the challenge of turning a complaint into a compliment, or at least a "thank you."
This job is not for everyone, that's for sure. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 1:50:10 PM
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| When I was a manager in the North county of San Diego, I also wore the hat of Transportation Director for the district. I agree with John Farr concerning good management practices, but I also have to say that sometimes it became "somewhat" political. |
William |
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contactbluebird
Senior Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 05:23:57 AM
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| I would say that it can get VERY political when you have an elected supt of education as well as an elected school board. |
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is transportation director a good career choice
